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440 Six Pack won't run for crap #1443472
05/28/13 01:26 PM
05/28/13 01:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,347
Wahoo Nebr
vette1986 Offline OP
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vette1986  Offline OP
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I am having issues with the 500 inch 6 pack motor I have in my charger. It is a fresh build and I can not get it to idle below 1000 as we are bottomed out on the idle adjustment at that level. I do not have an idle solenoid hooked up just yet as it is on order but would that help with idle speed or just run on? I put a vaccum gauge on it and it has between 9-11 of vaccum at idle. The car seems very very sluggish and does not seem to pull hard at all. If I roll it out in first and hit it around 10 mph it will give a quick bog and them go but not like it should for the build.
I have set the fuel levels, adjusted idle mixture and the timing is set at 6 initial and then the vaccum is hooked up to advance( I know it is a little lower level but that is so it does not run on when shut off as we had issues with that at any higher level). Anyone have any ideas? It seems very flat and will almost die when it idles down to turn a corner. I have not checked the powervalve but I have a 5.5 ordered to swap out.

Here are the engine specs:
500 inch
9.6 comp
stealth heads
comp cams .564 lift duration 251 intake 257 exhaust @.50
1 3/4 headers
brand new remanufactured carbs
stock aluminum 69.5 intake
auto with 2800 stall
3.55 gears
power brakes


Any help needed!!

Last edited by vette1986; 05/28/13 01:27 PM.

1969.5 A12 Bee EV2
1971 Charger RT
1973 Duster tubbed 500 low deck 10.90 monster
3 440 polara vert projects
Re: 440 Six Pack won't run for crap [Re: vette1986] #1443473
05/28/13 01:35 PM
05/28/13 01:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,537
PORT ALBERNI , BC., CANADA
superwrench Offline
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Mine is 496" with 6 pak and with a big Comp solid, I have 16*-17* initial with a REAL quick curve...all in by 2200 RPM. No vacuum advance hooked up and running 36* total timing.I ran the Comp XE295Hl before and it should tie into it like gangbusters when set up right.
Check your end carbs to make sure they are not open too far with the throttle at rest....the rods should JUST pop into the throttle levers on the end carbs. And make sure you don't have a vacuum leak at the intake.....I've had that happen before when the paper gaskets I put on the intake pan moved when installing.
Late timing down low will cause a bog.

Re: 440 Six Pack won't run for crap [Re: superwrench] #1443474
05/28/13 01:44 PM
05/28/13 01:44 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,537
PORT ALBERNI , BC., CANADA
superwrench Offline
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Oh....and I might add that I had to switch the springs on the outboard vacuum chambers to the purple springs for that XE295HL ..... the small yellow ones just came on a little too quick....that really made the transition to the end carbs a lot smoother.
Like said, that cam should make that engine a real strong mid range "pull -like- a - freighttrain" runner. Get that timing up there...

Re: 440 Six Pack won't run for crap [Re: vette1986] #1443475
05/28/13 02:05 PM
05/28/13 02:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,905
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR Offline
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lose the vac advance till you have it figured out , that is not enough initial , what is your total , what distributor ?

Re: 440 Six Pack won't run for crap [Re: vette1986] #1443476
05/28/13 02:17 PM
05/28/13 02:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
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Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
you need way more initial timing...more like 16* not 6*... What jets/PV/squirtter/springs? Unhook the vac advance, set the initial at 16* total at 38* at 2200rpm. Then turn your mixture screws all the way in, then back out 1/2 turn and adjust for best vaccum. That cam is probably going to like more stall and gear. I don't have a idle solenoid and my junk starts right up.


[IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/pui5j.jpg[/IMG]
Coming soon!!!!
Re: 440 Six Pack won't run for crap [Re: superwrench] #1443477
05/28/13 04:03 PM
05/28/13 04:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,347
Wahoo Nebr
vette1986 Offline OP
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vette1986  Offline OP
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Quote:

Mine is 496" with 6 pak and with a big Comp solid, I have 16*-17* initial with a REAL quick curve...all in by 2200 RPM. No vacuum advance hooked up and running 36* total timing.I ran the Comp XE295Hl before and it should tie into it like gangbusters when set up right.
Check your end carbs to make sure they are not open too far with the throttle at rest....the rods should JUST pop into the throttle levers on the end carbs. And make sure you don't have a vacuum leak at the intake.....I've had that happen before when the paper gaskets I put on the intake pan moved when installing.
Late timing down low will cause a bog.




would you think the vaccum should be more with this cam than 9-11? that seems low to me and I am wondering if I am losing it somewhere. I guess I will shoot some starter fluid around the intake to see if that detects it unless you guys have any other method for locating a vaccum leak. THanks


1969.5 A12 Bee EV2
1971 Charger RT
1973 Duster tubbed 500 low deck 10.90 monster
3 440 polara vert projects
Re: 440 Six Pack won't run for crap [Re: vette1986] #1443478
05/28/13 04:39 PM
05/28/13 04:39 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,180
upstate western ny
sogtx Offline
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oy vey -- you cant just bolt this stuff on ..

are all carb bolts tight with an inch/lb wrench 160 i belive ?

something makin it idle faster - usually more air .

read this


https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...rue#Post7349675

Re: 440 Six Pack won't run for crap [Re: vette1986] #1443479
05/28/13 05:27 PM
05/28/13 05:27 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,537
PORT ALBERNI , BC., CANADA
superwrench Offline
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superwrench  Offline
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PORT ALBERNI , BC., CANADA
Quote:

Quote:

Mine is 496" with 6 pak and with a big Comp solid, I have 16*-17* initial with a REAL quick curve...all in by 2200 RPM. No vacuum advance hooked up and running 36* total timing.I ran the Comp XE295Hl before and it should tie into it like gangbusters when set up right.
Check your end carbs to make sure they are not open too far with the throttle at rest....the rods should JUST pop into the throttle levers on the end carbs. And make sure you don't have a vacuum leak at the intake.....I've had that happen before when the paper gaskets I put on the intake pan moved when installing.
Late timing down low will cause a bog.




would you think the vaccum should be more with this cam than 9-11? that seems low to me and I am wondering if I am losing it somewhere. I guess I will shoot some starter fluid around the intake to see if that detects it unless you guys have any other method for locating a vaccum leak. THanks




That sounds right ....I think mine was around 10 or so.....it's the high idle that you'll have to chase down too...is the PCV port on the center carb being used or have you got it capped off?? Like mentioned, high idle usually means too much air (vacuum leak). Is the center carb's throttle plates closing all the way??? If they are remaned carbs, I'd check that too.
38* is maybe a tad high for a stroker engine....mine falls off after 36*.

Re: 440 Six Pack won't run for crap [Re: superwrench] #1443480
05/28/13 05:33 PM
05/28/13 05:33 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,155
CT
GTX MATT Offline
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I would only expect around 10 inches of vacuum with that cam in a 440. Even though you've got more cubes at idle it won't matter much. Needs more timing but that is going to exacerbate your fast idle issue. Are you setting up the center carb with the outboards disconnected?


Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
Re: 440 Six Pack won't run for crap [Re: GTX MATT] #1443481
05/28/13 05:40 PM
05/28/13 05:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,537
PORT ALBERNI , BC., CANADA
superwrench Offline
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superwrench  Offline
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Posts: 2,537
PORT ALBERNI , BC., CANADA
Quote:

I would only expect around 10 inches of vacuum with that cam in a 440. Even though you've got more cubes at idle it won't matter much. Needs more timing but that is going to exacerbate your fast idle issue. Are you setting up the center carb with the outboards disconnected?




100%.....you have to find what's causing the high idle first.....that thing will not idle at all with the screw backed all the way out if everything is right.
Keep us posted....

Re: 440 Six Pack won't run for crap [Re: GTX MATT] #1443482
05/28/13 05:53 PM
05/28/13 05:53 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
R
RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
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Lincoln Nebraska
As said way more initial right now before anything else. this'll let you slow the idle speed & the run on is from the blades open too far (needed with the improper not enough initial). Yes you'll need to adj the curve. In addition the carbs might be way out of whack (I dont know 6paks). Are you on ported or manifold


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: 440 Six Pack won't run for crap [Re: vette1986] #1443483
05/28/13 05:54 PM
05/28/13 05:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
62maxwgn Offline
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like said above,you don't have enough timing,and if you are using the thin black base gasket,pitch them !!

Re: 440 Six Pack won't run for crap [Re: sogtx] #1443484
05/28/13 05:57 PM
05/28/13 05:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Quote:

oy vey -- you cant just bolt this stuff on ..

are all carb bolts tight with an inch/lb wrench 160 i belive ?

something makin it idle faster - usually more air .

read this


https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...rue#Post7349675




actually mine worked very well out of the box w/ very little tweaking. I have since added more compression muuuch better heads and a solid roller cam.. that's when the tweaking started.

Re: 440 Six Pack won't run for crap [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1443485
05/28/13 06:03 PM
05/28/13 06:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,905
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR Offline
I Win
JohnRR  Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

oy vey -- you cant just bolt this stuff on ..

are all carb bolts tight with an inch/lb wrench 160 i belive ?

something makin it idle faster - usually more air .

read this


https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...rue#Post7349675




actually mine worked very well out of the box w/ very little tweaking. I have since added more compression muuuch better heads and a solid roller cam.. that's when the tweaking started.




The OP has a 500 inch engine , they carbs are calibrated for something that is 60 cubes less , so tweaking is a given ...

Re: 440 Six Pack won't run for crap [Re: JohnRR] #1443486
05/28/13 06:14 PM
05/28/13 06:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

oy vey -- you cant just bolt this stuff on ..

are all carb bolts tight with an inch/lb wrench 160 i belive ?

something makin it idle faster - usually more air .

read this


https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...rue#Post7349675




actually mine worked very well out of the box w/ very little tweaking. I have since added more compression muuuch better heads and a solid roller cam.. that's when the tweaking started.




The OP has a 500 inch engine , they carbs are calibrated for something that is 60 cubes less , so tweaking is a given ...




yup before he bolted them on he should have upped the squirter, upped the jets, maybe dropped to the purple springs and went w/ a 4.5PV...

Re: 440 Six Pack won't run for crap [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1443487
05/28/13 07:32 PM
05/28/13 07:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,788
Greer, SC
TooMany62s Offline
top fuel
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Greer, SC
I would definitely be looking for some kind of vacuum leak as a first step.

Re: 440 Six Pack won't run for crap [Re: TooMany62s] #1443488
05/28/13 07:39 PM
05/28/13 07:39 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,314
Ohio
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jlatessa Offline
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Ohio
I agree with a timing change BEFORE touching anything else.

Joe

Re: 440 Six Pack won't run for crap [Re: vette1986] #1443489
05/28/13 07:53 PM
05/28/13 07:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,309
Prospect, PA
BSB67 Offline
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Please clarify what you mean by ".... I can not get it to idle below 1000 as we are bottomed out on the idle adjustment ..."

Does this mean that the throttle plates are open as far as possible with the adjustment screw at 1000 rpm, or are they in the closed position?

When at an idle in neutral, if you put you hand over he middle carb to choke it, does the idle speed increase initially before dropping off?....if so, it could be a vacuum leak.

Re: 440 Six Pack won't run for crap [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1443490
05/28/13 07:55 PM
05/28/13 07:55 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,180
upstate western ny
sogtx Offline
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upstate western ny
Not today-Not on a stroker
Is this for an a12 car ? I know youve been shopping
For one ..

Sorry John didnt see your reply ..




Quote:

Quote:

oy vey -- you cant just bolt this stuff on ..

are all carb bolts tight with an inch/lb wrench 160 i belive ?

something makin it idle faster - usually more air .

read this


[url=https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?


Cat=0&Board=Racer&Number=7349675&Searchpage=2&Main=7346119&Words=Tom_Quad&topic=&Search=true#Post7349675]https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...rue#Post7349675[/url]








actually mine worked very well out of the box w/ very little tweaking. I have since added more compression muuuch better heads and a solid roller cam.. that's when the tweaking started.



Last edited by sogtx; 05/29/13 06:39 AM.
Re: 440 Six Pack won't run for crap [Re: jlatessa] #1443491
05/28/13 08:09 PM
05/28/13 08:09 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,537
PORT ALBERNI , BC., CANADA
superwrench Offline
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Quote:

I agree with a timing change BEFORE touching anything else.

Joe




Why is it idling SO fast at 6* of initial?? It shouldn't idle at all with the base screw not touching....I'm not doubting anything anyone has said so far, but a high idle with the screw backed off is a point of concern....

That is a pretty lumpy cam in there...I've had one....I still say find the idle woes and go from there...

And again I'm presuming the OP has the screw backed right off.

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