Re: because 13" rotors and 38mm/42mm pistons weren't enough
[Re: GoodysGotaCuda]
#1433645
05/11/13 11:05 AM
05/11/13 11:05 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,295 Here
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 23,295
Here
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You left out the time honored "mine are bigger then yours" reason, seriously.
Actually, I could care less what size brakes you run.
Apparently, you do.
You're in the realm of massive overkill. Since I don't drive Pike's Peak or Watkins Glen nor do I have massive steamroller tires I have yet to find any situation where my 11.75" rotors with organic pads and 11" drums are inadequate.
But if having the biggest set on the block makes you happy great, but don't p1ss on someone else's parade if they don't think massive overkill is the ticket.
Most people don't need a classic muscle car either, because just about anything is "overkill" compared to a Geo Metro.
Find something else to complain about that doesn't involve senselessly being negative toward a fellow board members enthusiasm or passion for his vehicle..
I like to think my comments are based on at least a smidgen of logic, if they were senseless, your point would be valid. If they are construed as negative, that might be in the eye of the beholder. I hope others technical passion for their cars also shares some logic. In this case however we have a Op who stated he is very happy with previous Gen2 brakes, but for reasons unclear to me, even after trying to state the obvious, has chosen to further upgrade his already loved brake package, for little other reason then, bigger is better, which the OP seemingly mocks himself. Brake capacity beyond locking the tires should be for a reason, we have mentioned what that most likely reason is, and I have no problem with that, except one should be honest, and not attack the messenger when questioned. There are also a number of downsides to constantly upgrading brakes way beyond any apparent needs, such as cost, complexity, unsprung weight, rotating mass, packaging, etc. Stating one positive reason for larger disc brakes is better pedal modulation maybe believed by some, but really? And trying somehow to introduce retro 9" drums in this discussion is pure ineffective exaggerated distortion (didn't know Cudas ever had 4 9" drums). There are other more cost effective simple brake fixes when one is seeking ultimate brakes with few downsides, that the OP has not mentioned, like 10oz of cooling duct vs heavier rotors, optimum pads chosen for the specific application, super high tech brake fluids, or just religious use of fresh brake fluids, which the OP doesn't not seem to realize based on his comments on another thread about how often one bleeds brakes anyhow. Sorry if my opinion is viewed as negative, it was meant to be a reality check, and besides its my opinion, nothing more. Maybe if the OP wants to fill his rims with largest rotors possible, he should just get smaller rims.
" All sorts of things can happen when you are open to new Ideas" Inventor of Kevlar
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Re: because 13" rotors and 38mm/42mm pistons weren't enough
[Re: jcc]
#1433646
05/11/13 11:52 AM
05/11/13 11:52 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345 Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
OP
Too Many Posts
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OP
Too Many Posts
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
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only on moparts will you find people who "critically question" why someone is doing something "excessive" ...at least when it comes to ANYTHING but Hp.
"why upgrade your cooling system? ma knew best...stock radiator, spring in the hose, mechanical clutch fan and a shroud. why do anything other than that?"
Funny...I've never seen anyone be so critical about building a 500 hp engine, when 300 hp is enough to break traction and spin the tires...
Why upgrade? because I wanted to. Cost? I'm making $100 in the upgrade because I fabricated the original brakes myself, and sold them for enough money as a complete kit, to pay for these calipers and rotors, plus put a little money in my pocket. I consider my time involved to be free, because this isn't a job, it's a hobby, something I do for fun in my spare time.
If you don't like what I'm doing, or you don't agree with what I'm doing, then don't post in my damn thread! nobody said anything about forcing you to copy what I'm doing. This isn't the Government, nobody is telling you that you HAVE to upgrade your brakes to "bigger and better" for your own safety.
**Photobucket sucks**
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Re: because 13" rotors and 38mm/42mm pistons weren't enough
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#1433651
05/13/13 12:14 PM
05/13/13 12:14 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 200 AB
Efidart
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 200
AB
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Don't worry about it 70Cuda383, its just typical Mopar guys that have nothing better to do. I appreciate that you showing off your bigger brakes this is something I'd like to tackle for a project. Last year I almost rear ended a guy who 2 footed his brakes ahead of me for no reason in my Cuda, all mine did was lock up and skid with stock discs and drums on the back. Something like this is the ticket! Maybe I should have left my stock drums on my Dart.. instead of drilled slotted 12.19" rotors all around. They help compliment my NOS window felts.
TT Predator headed 572 7 Second Street Car. Fastest Mopar Drag Week 2015 Fastest Mopar & Dodge Drag Week 2017 Pro Street Power Adder Champion Drag Week 2017
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Re: because 13" rotors and 38mm/42mm pistons weren't enough
[Re: Efidart]
#1433652
05/13/13 12:35 PM
05/13/13 12:35 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302 Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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I went with 14s because I already had 18" wheels and the difference in cost wasnt much. Some people have different reasons for saying what they do. Guys with 11.75 cop rotors say you dont need 13" brakes and ive had some guys say that 13" is plenty and I dont need 14's. Whatever.....I dont have brake rotor envy I guess.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: because 13" rotors and 38mm/42mm pistons weren't enough
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#1433653
05/13/13 01:38 PM
05/13/13 01:38 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723 Houston Tx
Uhcoog1
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
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I loved my Gen 2 viper brakes.
but...bigger is better, right?
I'm going to be adding these to the front of my truck instead.
Gen 3 viper brakes.
Here's a run down of the differences:
Gen 1, 2 viper brakes:
13" rotors, 38/42mm pistons in a 4 piston brembo caliper
Gen 3, 4 viper brakes: 14" rotors, 40/44mm pistons in a 4 piston brembo caliper.
Scored these off Ebay, and with the money I made by selling my Gen 2 brakes to another Dakota guy...will *hopefully* pocket about $100 from the upgrade
(finds wood to knock on because bad luck seems to find me easily and what seems easy or cheap...ends up costing me in the end )
Looks great! I'm happy for you. What pads are you going to run?
-'02 Dodge Viper Ex-World Challenge racecar -'73 Duster, 6.1 based 392 hilborn hemi, tko600, full floater rear 9", Hellwig custom bars, viper brakes, built for road course
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Re: because 13" rotors and 38mm/42mm pistons weren't enough
[Re: jcc]
#1433655
05/13/13 02:29 PM
05/13/13 02:29 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302 Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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Are you also using what looks like aftermarket Viper rotors? Stoptech maybe? What does that Dak weigh? 4K im guessing?
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: because 13" rotors and 38mm/42mm pistons weren't enough
[Re: jcc]
#1433656
05/13/13 07:34 PM
05/13/13 07:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,405 Pikes Peak Country
TC@HP2
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,405
Pikes Peak Country
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Hmm. I think most of us would agree that short track nascar Cup cars ( what are the called these days?)are brutal on their brakes. I also think its fair to say that even at superspeedway speeds, they have effective braking for their application. Given the rules limitations of the wheels, the most popular sizes the nascar boys run are 11.75 x 1.25 and 12.19 x 1.25. Since these diameters tend to produce enough brake torque to slow down a 3500 pound car at speeds greater than most of us run with tires that have greater grip than any 200 treadwear UHP street tire, I'd say they are effective.
Do the larger rotors look better behind larger diameter wheels, sure. Do they provide a greater leverage arm, yup. Do we all need them, well, does anyone need 1000 hp force induction mill? Same thought process. Need is not automatically the first defining characteristic in selection.
But I can also see that a larger rotor could produce greater force with less aggressive pad compounds, quieter use, and longer life in a street application where an optimized competition set up could work, but not necessarily be friedly to use for Joe Average who may not want to heat up the pads, stand on the binders, change pads every month and stop with a profoundly noticeable sound at every stop light on his way into work.
So if nascar steps up to 17" wheels, will the rotors diameters increase, I don't doubt they will. What impact will that have on the driver's feel. Dunno. I mean, after all, they all run power steering now days too and a few decades ago that would have had you labeled a panty waist. Times change and things change along with them.
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Re: because 13" rotors and 38mm/42mm pistons weren't enough
[Re: TC@HP2]
#1433657
05/13/13 07:50 PM
05/13/13 07:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 104,346 Garden Grove, CA
OzHemi
Penguin-hating Ginger
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Penguin-hating Ginger
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 104,346
Garden Grove, CA
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Quote:
Hmm. I think most of us would agree that short track nascar Cup cars ( what are the called these days?)are brutal on their brakes. I also think its fair to say that even at superspeedway speeds, they have effective braking for their application. Given the rules limitations of the wheels, the most popular sizes the nascar boys run are 11.75 x 1.25 and 12.19 x 1.25. Since these diameters tend to produce enough brake torque to slow down a 3500 pound car at speeds greater than most of us run with tires that have greater grip than any 200 treadwear UHP street tire, I'd say they are effective.
Do the larger rotors look better behind larger diameter wheels, sure. Do they provide a greater leverage arm, yup. Do we all need them, well, does anyone need 1000 hp force induction mill? Same thought process. Need is not automatically the first defining characteristic in selection.
But I can also see that a larger rotor could produce greater force with less aggressive pad compounds, quieter use, and longer life in a street application where an optimized competition set up could work, but not necessarily be friedly to use for Joe Average who may not want to heat up the pads, stand on the binders, change pads every month and stop with a profoundly noticeable sound at every stop light on his way into work.
So if nascar steps up to 17" wheels, will the rotors diameters increase, I don't doubt they will. What impact will that have on the driver's feel. Dunno. I mean, after all, they all run power steering now days too and a few decades ago that would have had you labeled a panty waist. Times change and things change along with them.
But look at other forms of road racing cars that are setup to race on tracks with lots of corners. Australian touring cars for example...use AP racing calipers and 15.5" rotors. Of course the Aussie cars are a little more high tech I suppose than the old fashioned nascar stuff.
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Re: because 13" rotors and 38mm/42mm pistons weren't enough
[Re: OzHemi]
#1433658
05/13/13 10:41 PM
05/13/13 10:41 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491 Lethbridge, AB, Canada
dangina
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
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Quote:
But look at other forms of road racing cars that are setup to race on tracks with lots of corners. Australian touring cars for example...use AP racing calipers and 15.5" rotors. Of course the Aussie cars are a little more high tech I suppose than the old fashioned nascar stuff.
curious - what car did those massive brembos come off of?
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Re: because 13" rotors and 38mm/42mm pistons weren't enough
[Re: OzHemi]
#1433663
05/13/13 11:55 PM
05/13/13 11:55 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491 Lethbridge, AB, Canada
dangina
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
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Here is a comparison by the way....top is a twin piston PBR caliper (made in Oz, but used on an assortment of GM and Fords here) in the middle is a 4 piston Brembo from a SRT8 Challenger, and bottom is the 8 piston one I used (before I had painted them)
I'm using Andyf's 13" mercedes rotors with viper calipers, they are probably similar in size to the middle brembos, 8 piston is some serious road racing! How fast from 60mph-to a dead stop with those on there?
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