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Re: Water/Meth Injection [Re: Cab_Burge] #1411509
03/31/13 05:15 PM
03/31/13 05:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 833
MN
hemidup Offline
super stock
hemidup  Offline
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Posts: 833
MN
Quote:

I would not inject water into a motor mixed with anything I would and will inject straight alcohol H2O expands to two hundred times it size when heated and converted to steam Not much room for anything else in the combustion chambers is there Steam doesn't burn worth a hoot either




Make's perfect sense Cab. I made 20 more hp without W/M @ 160* air intake temps than I did with W/M @ 115 air intake temps with the same fuel and timing tables.

I'm changing out my windshield washer mix and going with straight denatured alcohol that I can buy from the hardware store.


Jerry Williams.
Re: Water/Meth Injection [Re: hemidup] #1411510
03/31/13 07:32 PM
03/31/13 07:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
why not spray water? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYw2q7igDGs helps control the burn. Makes 93 act like 116. you can run as much advance as you need... this is also worth looking at..

Re: Water/Meth Injection [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1411511
03/31/13 08:36 PM
03/31/13 08:36 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,305
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
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Bend,OR USA
Quote:

why not spray water? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYw2q7igDGs helps control the burn. Makes 93 act like 116. you can run as much advance as you need... this is also worth looking at..


Repeat that test with straight alcohol, Methanol, Ethanol, Denatured or what ever is easist to get for you, and see what the results are You won't be disappointed BTW, the inlet temps on most boosted motors dictates how much total timing they can run Alochol absorbs heat as it evaporates


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Water/Meth Injection [Re: Cab_Burge] #1411512
03/31/13 09:56 PM
03/31/13 09:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,942
Metro Detroit
OUTLAWD Offline
top fuel
OUTLAWD  Offline
top fuel

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Posts: 1,942
Metro Detroit
Quote:

Alochol absorbs heat as it evaporates




On any engine charge cooling has its benefits, moreso on boosted engines, which is where using alcohol comes into play nicely

This business of using water to slow combustion, however, just sounds like a bandaid.


Faster, Faster until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death...

71 Swinger - slowly collecting dust/parts
66 Belv. II - just a streetcar
88 Mustang - turbo LS beater
Re: Water/Meth Injection [Re: OUTLAWD] #1411513
03/31/13 10:02 PM
03/31/13 10:02 PM

A
Anonymous
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Anonymous
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A



All the makers seem to recommend water and meth not just meth.

Re: Water/Meth Injection [Re: ] #1411514
03/31/13 11:29 PM
03/31/13 11:29 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 4,489
northern,Ohio,USA
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Clanton Offline
master
Clanton  Offline
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C

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 4,489
northern,Ohio,USA
Quote:

All the makers seem to recommend water and meth not just meth.


using an inj kit will require some planning,testing like they say your results may very.


GOTBOOST!New improved with Victor heads.
http://www.enginelabs.com/mopar-big-bloc...t-of-necessity/
Re: Water/Meth Injection [Re: ] #1411515
03/31/13 11:38 PM
03/31/13 11:38 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,305
Bend,OR USA
C
Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,305
Bend,OR USA
Quote:

All the makers seem to recommend water and meth not just meth.


Straight Metanol alcholol absorbs,sucks, moisture out of the air and that mixture ends up making it very corrosive, especially on aluminum, don't ask me how I know that Maybe the kit makers want you to dilute the Methanol enough to stop the corrosion from adding a small amount of moisture to it like it will do on its own If so I would use either straight Ethanol or denatured alcholol like you can buy in any Wal Mart or paint or hardware store


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Water/Meth Injection [Re: Cab_Burge] #1411516
04/01/13 09:07 AM
04/01/13 09:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Quote:

Quote:

All the makers seem to recommend water and meth not just meth.


Straight Metanol alcholol absorbs,sucks, moisture out of the air and that mixture ends up making it very corrosive, especially on aluminum, don't ask me how I know that Maybe the kit makers want you to dilute the Methanol enough to stop the corrosion from adding a small amount of moisture to it like it will do on its own If so I would use either straight Ethanol or denatured alcholol like you can buy in any Wal Mart or paint or hardware store




I think the instructions call for the washer fluid to be at 49% alcohol.

Re: Water/Meth Injection [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1411517
04/01/13 03:50 PM
04/01/13 03:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,842
N.E. Ohio
6bblFLASH Offline OP
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Posts: 3,842
N.E. Ohio
Well as far as I understand,there are a couple reasons for water/meth instead of straight alcohol.
As stated corrosion: eats everything - can`t let it sit either.
:fire hazard -water/ meth is not fuel ,straight meth is and requires all the safety and restrictions gas does. IE.lines,tank,shipping,storage etc...

I`ve seen test after test,the stuff works. Does meth only work better,yes.... But what is your goal??? What are you willing to do to get it????


70` Cuda`,440 6BBL Jerico,Dana 4.56 Still on 93 Pump Gas
9.87 @ 136/1.31-60ft.`09 Mopar Nationals PASSON PERFORMANCE "Stick-Shift" Champ!
2013 StickShift Challenge Winner@ Mopar Nationals!
Re: Water/Meth Injection [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1411518
04/01/13 04:42 PM
04/01/13 04:42 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,086
The Wet Coast, Canada
megajoltman Offline
master
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Posts: 4,086
The Wet Coast, Canada
They supposedly recommend using a 50/50 mix of water/methanol for the best combination of air charge cooling and detonation control.

Most washer fluids rated between -20 and -35 degree's below zero contain between 30-40% methanol (but not all so check the lable)which is what I have used. Pretty hard to find in summer here though

Last edited by megajoltman; 04/01/13 04:48 PM.

1969 Dart 383/727/D60

CTD Ram 4x4 Mega Cab

Procharged 350Z
Re: Water/Meth Injection [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1411519
04/01/13 04:49 PM
04/01/13 04:49 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,086
The Wet Coast, Canada
megajoltman Offline
master
megajoltman  Offline
master

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,086
The Wet Coast, Canada
They supposedly recommend using a 50/50 mix of water/methanol for the best combination of air charge cooling and detonation control.

Most washer fluids rated between -20 and -35 degree's below zero contain between 30-40% methanol which is what I have used. Pretty hard to find in summer here though


1969 Dart 383/727/D60

CTD Ram 4x4 Mega Cab

Procharged 350Z
Re: Water/Meth Injection [Re: 6bblFLASH] #1411520
04/01/13 05:43 PM
04/01/13 05:43 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 339
Gilroy,CA.
mopardude318 Offline
enthusiast
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Gilroy,CA.
Quote:

4




Thank you for the pictures. What is the diameter of your blower crank pulley? 6 or 7 inches?


408 Stroker 533 HP 520 FT LBS...........................1970 Dart RMS AlterKation
Re: Water/Meth Injection [Re: mopardude318] #1411521
04/01/13 11:51 PM
04/01/13 11:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,842
N.E. Ohio
6bblFLASH Offline OP
master
6bblFLASH  Offline OP
master

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Posts: 3,842
N.E. Ohio
Quote:

Quote:

4




Thank you for the pictures. What is the diameter of your blower crank pulley? 6 or 7 inches?




7". My drive ratio is 2.13 to 1.


70` Cuda`,440 6BBL Jerico,Dana 4.56 Still on 93 Pump Gas
9.87 @ 136/1.31-60ft.`09 Mopar Nationals PASSON PERFORMANCE "Stick-Shift" Champ!
2013 StickShift Challenge Winner@ Mopar Nationals!
Re: Water/Meth Injection [Re: 6bblFLASH] #1411522
04/02/13 04:27 AM
04/02/13 04:27 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,842
N.E. Ohio
6bblFLASH Offline OP
master
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Posts: 3,842
N.E. Ohio
Well I think I have found a solution.

I drilled a passage from the side of the carb. main body between the venturi`s which intersects with a hole coming up from the bottom thru the baseplate inline with the air cleaner stud.
This base already has a 5/8 recessed hole in the center of the throttle blades. I will drill it thru and tap 1/8NPT and thread a nozzle there spraying straight down into the top of the blower.
The outside passage will also be tapped to plump the high pressure water/meth.
The rest will be like any other install.

I will take some pic`s once its done.


70` Cuda`,440 6BBL Jerico,Dana 4.56 Still on 93 Pump Gas
9.87 @ 136/1.31-60ft.`09 Mopar Nationals PASSON PERFORMANCE "Stick-Shift" Champ!
2013 StickShift Challenge Winner@ Mopar Nationals!
Re: Water/Meth Injection [Re: 6bblFLASH] #1411523
04/02/13 02:26 PM
04/02/13 02:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,942
Metro Detroit
OUTLAWD Offline
top fuel
OUTLAWD  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,942
Metro Detroit
Sounds really slick!


Faster, Faster until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death...

71 Swinger - slowly collecting dust/parts
66 Belv. II - just a streetcar
88 Mustang - turbo LS beater
Re: Water/Meth Injection [Re: 6bblFLASH] #1411524
04/02/13 02:46 PM
04/02/13 02:46 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 339
Gilroy,CA.
mopardude318 Offline
enthusiast
mopardude318  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 339
Gilroy,CA.
Quote:

Well I think I have found a solution.

I drilled a passage from the side of the carb. main body between the venturi`s which intersects with a hole coming up from the bottom thru the baseplate inline with the air cleaner stud.
This base already has a 5/8 recessed hole in the center of the throttle blades. I will drill it thru and tap 1/8NPT and thread a nozzle there spraying straight down into the top of the blower.
The outside passage will also be tapped to plump the high pressure water/meth.
The rest will be like any other install.

I will take some pic`s once its done.




Sweet idea. Please remember to post those pics when youre done!

What carb are you currently using?

For my B&M blower, I'm thinking of using one of the holley 750 supercharger carbs.


408 Stroker 533 HP 520 FT LBS...........................1970 Dart RMS AlterKation
Re: Water/Meth Injection [Re: mopardude318] #1411525
04/02/13 03:26 PM
04/02/13 03:26 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,490
Florida STAYcation
dOc … Offline
The village idiot's idiot
dOc …  Offline
The village idiot's idiot

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,490
Florida STAYcation
WI works great on a tow rig .... and cleans-up the WHOLE top-end of the motor very nicely PLUS it allows you to run lower octane fuel with more timing ..... NO power increase though ....

Re: Water/Meth Injection [Re: dOc …] #1411526
04/02/13 04:38 PM
04/02/13 04:38 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,260
IL
furious70 Offline
top fuel
furious70  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,260
IL
Edelbrock varijection had a nice on top of carb setup. out of production for many years though.

Hugh had a few very interesting things to say about bsfc and water

http://books.google.com/books/about/Turbochargers.html?id=pewyJ3_F4XMC


70 Sport Fury
68 Charger
69 Coronet
72 RR
Re: Water/Meth Injection [Re: furious70] #1411527
04/02/13 04:44 PM
04/02/13 04:44 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,490
Florida STAYcation
dOc … Offline
The village idiot's idiot
dOc …  Offline
The village idiot's idiot

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,490
Florida STAYcation
I had a Spearco unit on my gasser Dodge dually with a weak-400 motor .... it would clean-up a dirty plug DIRECTLY ...almost like it was sandblasted..... but it would go through a TON of water !!

Re: Water/Meth Injection [Re: dOc …] #1411528
04/02/13 06:56 PM
04/02/13 06:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,263
Southwestern Ontario Canada
racealittle Offline
pro stock
racealittle  Offline
pro stock

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,263
Southwestern Ontario Canada
Quote:

I had a Spearco unit on my gasser Dodge dually with a weak-400 motor .... it would clean-up a dirty plug DIRECTLY ...almost like it was sandblasted..... but it would go through a TON of water !!




I still have a new one in a box somewhere. They always reminded me of a windshield washer bottle/pump with a simple plastic nozzle for an injecter...

The snow performance units are more substantial looking. But, that is why they cost more. They are much more scienced out than an old Spearco.


Too many cars, too many parts, too little coin, too little space to work in, too little time left to make it all happen! Update: down to one ride, still too many parts, a little more jingle in the pocket, gaining space, and it's going to happen this year!
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