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Mr. Six Pack Engine Attack! Almost Pure Stock build... #1409990
03/27/13 11:49 PM
03/27/13 11:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 903
Saskatchewan, Canada
cudabin Offline OP
super stock
cudabin  Offline OP
super stock

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 903
Saskatchewan, Canada
I am starting the engine build for my numbers matching 440 six pack motor out of my 1970 Super Bee.

30 years ago, I did an old school rebuild using TRW six pack replacement pistons boring the engine out .030' and turned the crank .010"/.010". We did parrellel deck the block and set them up at zero deck, but nothing too fancy.

I bought a Mr. Six Pack cam this winter and decided to freshen the engine up in an "almost purestock" fashion using everything I have learned in the last 30 years.

Instead of boring the block out to .040" or .060" over, we simply honed it out with a torque plate until it was as round as we needed, then ordered custom Diamond pistons at .034" over. finished bore will be 4.354" with stock 3.75" stroke.

The TRW's with pin weighed 1,162 grams each, and the new Diamonds with a .145" wall tool steel pin weigh only 783 grams...
Saved 379 grams per piston and ended up with higher quality/stronger pieces!

I am using an .043" / .043" napier second / 3 mm Oil Ring package which should reduce friction and free up some HP.

Here are the Pistons with pin.

Cheers,

Arnie

Last edited by cudabin; 03/27/13 11:53 PM.

67 Cuda 8.48@ 158.7 mph 1.18 60' 2,600 DA(so far...) 70 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 4-speed. 13.2 @ 104 Stock exhaust/Street tires.
Re: Mr. Six Pack Engine Attack! Almost Pure Stock build... [Re: cudabin] #1409991
03/27/13 11:54 PM
03/27/13 11:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 903
Saskatchewan, Canada
cudabin Offline OP
super stock
cudabin  Offline OP
super stock

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 903
Saskatchewan, Canada
Here is the underside which Diamond did a bit of lightening on for me...


67 Cuda 8.48@ 158.7 mph 1.18 60' 2,600 DA(so far...) 70 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 4-speed. 13.2 @ 104 Stock exhaust/Street tires.
Re: Mr. Six Pack Engine Attack! Almost Pure Stock build... [Re: cudabin] #1409992
03/28/13 12:36 AM
03/28/13 12:36 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
S
sixpackgut Offline
Drag Week Mod Champion
sixpackgut  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
so far you spent more on pistons and rings than the whole last rebuild. they look pretty


Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
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performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
Re: Mr. Six Pack Engine Attack! Almost Pure Stock build... [Re: cudabin] #1409993
03/28/13 02:11 AM
03/28/13 02:11 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,431
SK,Canada
gregsrt Offline
top fuel
gregsrt  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,431
SK,Canada
What shop did you use for machining here in Sask? Who do you recommend that is Mopar friendly?


An association of men who will not quarrel with one another is a thing which has never yet existed, from the greatest confederacy of nations down to a town meeting or a vestry. Thomas Jefferson
Re: Mr. Six Pack Engine Attack! Almost Pure Stock build... [Re: cudabin] #1409994
03/28/13 07:31 AM
03/28/13 07:31 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,316
Prospect, PA
BSB67 Offline
master
BSB67  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,316
Prospect, PA
Really nice looking stuff. I think the lightest shelving pistons out there are the Icons and Ross and they come in at 820-840ish IIRC.

Are you going factory head? Will it be pump gas?

Re: Mr. Six Pack Engine Attack! Almost Pure Stock build... [Re: BSB67] #1409995
03/28/13 08:46 AM
03/28/13 08:46 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,103
Phila Pa
S
scatpacktom Offline
master
scatpacktom  Offline
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S

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,103
Phila Pa
No Pure Stock Drags for you?

Re: Mr. Six Pack Engine Attack! Almost Pure Stock build... [Re: scatpacktom] #1409996
03/28/13 08:16 PM
03/28/13 08:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,316
Prospect, PA
BSB67 Offline
master
BSB67  Offline
master

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,316
Prospect, PA
It is an occassional thought, it fades quickly. Same with FAST.

Re: Mr. Six Pack Engine Attack! Almost Pure Stock build... [Re: BSB67] #1409997
03/28/13 11:50 PM
03/28/13 11:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 903
Saskatchewan, Canada
cudabin Offline OP
super stock
cudabin  Offline OP
super stock

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 903
Saskatchewan, Canada
The machining is being done by Bruce at ABS Competition Enterprise here in Regina.

Yes I am using the original 906 heads, but since they were already pocket ported, it would not be a real pure stock build. Also there is no venue for that here in Canada.

The original Six Pack Rods were magnafluxed/ crack checked and then we added ARP 2000 rod bolts and resized the bottom end.

The top end of the rod will be bushed for the floating tool steel pins, and we will adjust the piston deck height with the bushing placement to get each piston precisely at the same deck height. The block deck surface was still good and checked out to be right on for parrellel.

There are a few more tricks to be done, so I will update as we progress, then share the dyno numbers using factory exhaust manifolds.

cheers,

Arnie

Last edited by cudabin; 05/04/13 01:50 PM.

67 Cuda 8.48@ 158.7 mph 1.18 60' 2,600 DA(so far...) 70 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 4-speed. 13.2 @ 104 Stock exhaust/Street tires.
Re: Mr. Six Pack Engine Attack! Almost Pure Stock build... [Re: cudabin] #1409998
03/29/13 02:30 PM
03/29/13 02:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,023
Lincoln NE
4
440forPOWER Offline
super gas
440forPOWER  Offline
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4

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,023
Lincoln NE
Thanks for posting. I'll be watching this post closely. I'm planning on rebuilding my 440 6 with Mr.Six Pack cam and specs. Thanks

Re: Mr. Six Pack Engine Attack! Almost Pure Stock build... [Re: cudabin] #1409999
03/29/13 04:20 PM
03/29/13 04:20 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 518
ny
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greenmcode Offline
mopar
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Posts: 518
ny
What kind of compression you looking at?


1969 A12 R.R. 11.61 117.96 F.A.S.T. STOCK STROKE..
Re: Mr. Six Pack Engine Attack! Almost Pure Stock build... [Re: cudabin] #1410000
03/29/13 04:26 PM
03/29/13 04:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,431
SK,Canada
gregsrt Offline
top fuel
gregsrt  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,431
SK,Canada
'The machining is being done by Bruce at ABS Competition Enterprise here in Regina'

That's where I was going to take my 400 block to get machined. I've heard more good than bad about him. thanks


An association of men who will not quarrel with one another is a thing which has never yet existed, from the greatest confederacy of nations down to a town meeting or a vestry. Thomas Jefferson
Re: Mr. Six Pack Engine Attack! Almost Pure Stock build... [Re: cudabin] #1410001
03/29/13 05:12 PM
03/29/13 05:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 704
USA
R
rftroy Offline
super stock
rftroy  Offline
super stock
R

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 704
USA
I'll be doing a very similar build to my 70 Roadrunner six pack engine, which is now .030 over.

Were you able to get a custom size of ring to match the pistons? Going an extra .004 over will increase the ring gap by about .013".

Bob


AAR 4-speed 3.91, Tor-Red;
70 440 6 pack Roadrunner 4-speed 3.54, Plum Crazy;
68 Formula S conv 383 4-speed 3.23, Electric Blue;
69 Barracuda conv Slant 6 OD4 2.94, 71 B5 Blue;
78 Lil' Red Truck, Red;
70 Challenger S/E. 505 6 pack, Passon 5-speed, 3.55, B7 Blue
Re: Mr. Six Pack Engine Attack! Almost Pure Stock build... [Re: gregsrt] #1410002
03/29/13 06:07 PM
03/29/13 06:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 251
Saskatchewan (SK)
7
79410aspenrt Offline
enthusiast
79410aspenrt  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 251
Saskatchewan (SK)
i have my small block at ABS competation in Regina. it should be done in a week or so.

Bruce must be good at machining and building engines. his shop is jammed packed with engines. the back part of the shop is engine after engine.

must be doing something right.

good guy to deal with, i've had no problems.




Re: Mr. Six Pack Engine Attack! Almost Pure Stock build... [Re: greenmcode] #1410003
03/31/13 01:25 AM
03/31/13 01:25 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 903
Saskatchewan, Canada
cudabin Offline OP
super stock
cudabin  Offline OP
super stock

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Posts: 903
Saskatchewan, Canada
Compression will be set at 9.5 to 1, so that i can run it on non - ethanol 91 octane. No quench and iron heads are stopping me from trying more, plus the Mr Six pack camshaft while being more aggressive on the ramps, does not have enough duration to bleed off the squeeze...

The rings came with the pistons from Diamond, but a "file to fit" set for .030" over should work and will just require less filing... I think this .034" overbore is worthwhile to leave more meat in the cylinder walls for better ring seal and cooling.

Yes I highly recommend Bruce at ABS if you want to make some good power in SK,

Cheers,

Arnie


67 Cuda 8.48@ 158.7 mph 1.18 60' 2,600 DA(so far...) 70 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 4-speed. 13.2 @ 104 Stock exhaust/Street tires.
Re: Mr. Six Pack Engine Attack! Almost Pure Stock build... [Re: cudabin] #1410004
03/31/13 09:57 AM
03/31/13 09:57 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,316
Prospect, PA
BSB67 Offline
master
BSB67  Offline
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Prospect, PA
9.5 is probably about right. Double check your intake valve closing point. Despite the small duration, you might be surprised depending on your ICL.

Re: Mr. Six Pack Engine Attack! Almost Pure Stock build... [Re: BSB67] #1410005
04/01/13 01:24 PM
04/01/13 01:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 903
Saskatchewan, Canada
cudabin Offline OP
super stock
cudabin  Offline OP
super stock

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 903
Saskatchewan, Canada
I plan to install the Mr. Six pack cam at 114 degrees ICL, which would be straight up.

The Super Bee has the Super track pack 4.10 gears, so this should favor the upper rpm slightly at 114.

Arnie


67 Cuda 8.48@ 158.7 mph 1.18 60' 2,600 DA(so far...) 70 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 4-speed. 13.2 @ 104 Stock exhaust/Street tires.
Re: Mr. Six Pack Engine Attack! Almost Pure Stock build... [Re: cudabin] #1410006
04/01/13 05:07 PM
04/01/13 05:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,010
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline
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I Live Here

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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
Those pistons and rings ought to help in the hp department a lot! Are you going to use stock valvetrain? Looking forward to the dyno sheets.


8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: Mr. Six Pack Engine Attack! Almost Pure Stock build... [Re: gregsdart] #1410007
04/01/13 07:38 PM
04/01/13 07:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 903
Saskatchewan, Canada
cudabin Offline OP
super stock
cudabin  Offline OP
super stock

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 903
Saskatchewan, Canada
Almost stock Greg...

It already had the 2.14/1.81 valves in it, with 1.5 ratio Crane ductile iron rockers. (Honest, those are stock 273 pieces...)

The old double Isky springs with retainers weighed 150 grams, and the new comp #26120 Beehives w/ #1795 tool steel retainers only weigh 104 grams for a savings of 46 grams. The benefit is actually greater as only the active part of the spring wieght counts and the heaviest part of the beehives is the bottom two coils which don't move.

This saving of wieght over top the valve should help the Johnson Hylift short travel hydraulic rockers work better at 6,000 rpm.

The chambers have been unshrouded ala Dan Dvorak's advice to me years ago, and the valves were back cut to improve lowlift flow.

So it is basically "Almost Stock" valvetrain...

More tricks planned, but always interested in learning new ones!

Arnie

Last edited by cudabin; 04/22/13 04:52 PM.
Re: Mr. Six Pack Engine Attack! Almost Pure Stock build... [Re: cudabin] #1410008
04/05/13 03:37 PM
04/05/13 03:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 903
Saskatchewan, Canada
cudabin Offline OP
super stock
cudabin  Offline OP
super stock

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 903
Saskatchewan, Canada
In keeping with the Almost pure stock theme... I bought a Rev-n-nator ignition box from Rich at Firecore. All hype aside, if Dave Dudek is using one on his pure stock Bee and said it made 16hp more than the MP Chrome box at 6,000 rpm, I want to try it!

I will dyno first with the MSD system normally used on the dyno, then once tuned, i will compare the Rev-n-nator.

cheers,

Arnie

Last edited by cudabin; 04/05/13 03:45 PM.

67 Cuda 8.48@ 158.7 mph 1.18 60' 2,600 DA(so far...) 70 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 4-speed. 13.2 @ 104 Stock exhaust/Street tires.
Re: Mr. Six Pack Engine Attack! Almost Pure Stock build... [Re: cudabin] #1410009
04/05/13 09:48 PM
04/05/13 09:48 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
Dunnuck Racing Offline
master
Dunnuck Racing  Offline
master

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
Just keep in mind when you switch ignition boxes,you will most likely need to adjust your timing . Best power with each system on all the engines I have done the same test with usually likes a few degrees less with the Rev N Nator after switching.
Also when you first make the switch your timing will change some due to the way it picks up the reluctor signal.
Keith

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