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Re: HEADERS on a 440 - Pros, Cons?? [Re: Pyper70] #1400843
03/16/13 05:44 AM
03/16/13 05:44 AM

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I had a set of Hooker Headers on my 73 Charger. I couldn't keep it from burning plug wires (this was in the late 70's) I had a column shift, and converted it to console with slap stick. Headers interferred. I made micky mouse brackets that hung lower than any other part of the car. That didn't last long. I bought a B&M Star shifter. Could NEVER get the thing aligned right for the gear shifts. Cables melted on the headers and there was no way to reroute them. OVER AND OVER. I tried everything, muffler wrap, springs to pull them out of the way, etc. Mini starters were not an option back then. I was constantly rebuilding starters. I couldn't get to the plugs in some locations unless I raised the car, removed a tire, and loosened up the motor mounts to raise the engine. Also burnt my arms and wrists many times. Also leaks ALL the time. Headers are JUST NOT WORTH it. Just my opinion. Go ahead and use them if you must. On a street car, they are worthless. If you insist on headers, don't say that you weren't warned. There is something to be said about factory engineering. Factory Hi-Pos on a street machine is the way to go.

Re: HEADERS on a 440 - Pros, Cons?? [Re: Pyper70] #1400844
03/16/13 05:54 AM
03/16/13 05:54 AM

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By the way, TTI makes down pipes for factory manifolds (HI-PO or regular) into a decent dual exhaust CHEAP! Look it up. They make it easy to hook up an exhaust.

Last edited by chump; 03/16/13 05:58 AM.
Re: HEADERS on a 440 - Pros, Cons?? #1400845
03/16/13 11:09 AM
03/16/13 11:09 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1 Offline
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Challenger 1  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Quote:

I had a set of Hooker Headers on my 73 Charger. I couldn't keep it from burning plug wires (this was in the late 70's) I had a column shift, and converted it to console with slap stick. Headers interferred. I made micky mouse brackets that hung lower than any other part of the car. That didn't last long. I bought a B&M Star shifter. Could NEVER get the thing aligned right for the gear shifts. Cables melted on the headers and there was no way to reroute them. OVER AND OVER. I tried everything, muffler wrap, springs to pull them out of the way, etc. Mini starters were not an option back then. I was constantly rebuilding starters. I couldn't get to the plugs in some locations unless I raised the car, removed a tire, and loosened up the motor mounts to raise the engine. Also burnt my arms and wrists many times. Also leaks ALL the time. Headers are JUST NOT WORTH it. Just my opinion. Go ahead and use them if you must.On a street car, they are worthless. If you insist on headers, don't say that you weren't warned. There is something to be said about factory engineering. Factory Hi-Pos on a street machine is the way to go.




My TTI headers don't leak at all and makes my car sound so sweet. There's no way I could get that sound with factory manifolds. And I have no drone whatsoever.

Everywhere I go, at every intersection folks are looking at my car because of the sweet sound and many thumbs up every time I drive it. MY TTI headers are no where near the ground and can not rub the road, the only thing I don't like is getting to the spark plugs on my 440. My 340 is easy to get to the plugs.

Re: HEADERS on a 440 - Pros, Cons?? [Re: Challenger 1] #1400846
03/16/13 06:19 PM
03/16/13 06:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
Quote:

Quote:

I had a set of Hooker Headers on my 73 Charger. I couldn't keep it from burning plug wires (this was in the late 70's) I had a column shift, and converted it to console with slap stick. Headers interferred. I made micky mouse brackets that hung lower than any other part of the car. That didn't last long. I bought a B&M Star shifter. Could NEVER get the thing aligned right for the gear shifts. Cables melted on the headers and there was no way to reroute them. OVER AND OVER. I tried everything, muffler wrap, springs to pull them out of the way, etc. Mini starters were not an option back then. I was constantly rebuilding starters. I couldn't get to the plugs in some locations unless I raised the car, removed a tire, and loosened up the motor mounts to raise the engine. Also burnt my arms and wrists many times. Also leaks ALL the time. Headers are JUST NOT WORTH it. Just my opinion. Go ahead and use them if you must.On a street car, they are worthless. If you insist on headers, don't say that you weren't warned. There is something to be said about factory engineering. Factory Hi-Pos on a street machine is the way to go.




My TTI headers don't leak at all and makes my car sound so sweet. There's no way I could get that sound with factory manifolds. And I have no drone whatsoever.

Everywhere I go, at every intersection folks are looking at my car because of the sweet sound and many thumbs up every time I drive it. MY TTI headers are no where near the ground and can not rub the road, the only thing I don't like is getting to the spark plugs on my 440. My 340 is easy to get to the plugs.





I agree as I have never had a gasket leak with my TTI headers also. And I love the sound of the closed full exh out the back of the car with headers. No problems with ground clearence. You pay more for the TTI's but they are the best header I have used. Ron

Re: HEADERS on a 440 - Pros, Cons?? [Re: 383man] #1400847
03/16/13 08:10 PM
03/16/13 08:10 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,499
Slidell, LA
Plum440 Offline OP
pro stock
Plum440  Offline OP
pro stock

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,499
Slidell, LA
Is it wise to use a gasket sealant or just the gasket?


70 Challenger, 440, 4-speed, pLuM cRaZy
71 VW Super Beetle Convertible, Lemon Yellow
A couple of Jeeps…


Re: HEADERS on a 440 - Pros, Cons?? #1400848
03/17/13 04:05 AM
03/17/13 04:05 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:

I had a set of Hooker Headers on my 73 Charger. I couldn't keep it from burning plug wires (this was in the late 70's) I had a column shift, and converted it to console with slap stick. Headers interferred. I made micky mouse brackets that hung lower than any other part of the car. That didn't last long. I bought a B&M Star shifter. Could NEVER get the thing aligned right for the gear shifts. Cables melted on the headers and there was no way to reroute them. OVER AND OVER. I tried everything, muffler wrap, springs to pull them out of the way, etc. Mini starters were not an option back then. I was constantly rebuilding starters. I couldn't get to the plugs in some locations unless I raised the car, removed a tire, and loosened up the motor mounts to raise the engine. Also burnt my arms and wrists many times. Also leaks ALL the time. Headers are JUST NOT WORTH it. Just my opinion. Go ahead and use them if you must. On a street car, they are worthless. If you insist on headers, don't say that you weren't warned. There is something to be said about factory engineering. Factory Hi-Pos on a street machine is the way to go.




My 74 satellite would have basically the same engine bay as your car and my el cheapo headers never had any issues with the slapstik linkage. Plus I found changing spark plugs to be way easier with them headers than with the log manifolds I had on the 440 before. I melted one plug boot because I didn't have my routing correct but after I fixed that I was good to go.

Re: HEADERS on a 440 - Pros, Cons?? #1400849
03/18/13 06:12 AM
03/18/13 06:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader Offline
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Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Quote:

I had a set of Hooker Headers on my 73 Charger. I couldn't keep it from burning plug wires (this was in the late 70's) I had a column shift, and converted it to console with slap stick. Headers interferred. I made micky mouse brackets that hung lower than any other part of the car. That didn't last long. I bought a B&M Star shifter. Could NEVER get the thing aligned right for the gear shifts. Cables melted on the headers and there was no way to reroute them. OVER AND OVER. I tried everything, muffler wrap, springs to pull them out of the way, etc. Mini starters were not an option back then. I was constantly rebuilding starters. I couldn't get to the plugs in some locations unless I raised the car, removed a tire, and loosened up the motor mounts to raise the engine. Also burnt my arms and wrists many times. Also leaks ALL the time. Headers are JUST NOT WORTH it. Just my opinion. Go ahead and use them if you must. On a street car, they are worthless. If you insist on headers, don't say that you weren't warned. There is something to be said about factory engineering. Factory Hi-Pos on a street machine is the way to go.





No... CHEAP ancient-design headers are not worth it. You get what you pay for, and while those old (designed in the 70's) Hooker Comps might flow well... they're loud, have thin flanges everywhere (leak), horrid plug clearance and still in pretty much every case i've come across need some smashing somewhere to fit.

Worthless...??? I guess an extra 20-30HP is worthless too...??? Hardly worthless... but how fast do ya wanna go...???

Re: HEADERS on a 440 - Pros, Cons?? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1400850
03/18/13 10:07 AM
03/18/13 10:07 AM

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http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/mopp_0106_manifolds_vs_headers/viewall.html

dyno results, stock 440 iron manifolds vs. Hedman shorties vs. Hedman Elite with 1 3/4" tubes:

Horsepower
RPM Manifold Shorty Elite
3000 256.2 260.9 271.7
3200 274.0 275.9 289.0
3400 295.5 297.0 319.1
3600 310.0 325.0 350.0
3800 330.1 351.9 380.7
4000 353.9 378.0 405.8
4200 375.1 401.9 429.2
4400 381.8 423.4 447.7
4600 402.5 439.1 464.1
4800 402.3 450.5 474.9
5000 405.4 463.2 481.3
5200 408.9 471.8 488.0
5400 422.2 478.8 492.3
5600 416.8 474.6 489.5
5800 411.9 468.1 487.1

Re: HEADERS on a 440 - Pros, Cons?? #1400851
03/18/13 12:25 PM
03/18/13 12:25 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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Quote:

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/mopp_0106_manifolds_vs_headers/viewall.html

dyno results, stock 440 iron manifolds vs. Hedman shorties vs. Hedman Elite with 1 3/4" tubes:

Horsepower
RPM Manifold Shorty Elite
3000 256.2 260.9 271.7
3200 274.0 275.9 289.0
3400 295.5 297.0 319.1
3600 310.0 325.0 350.0
3800 330.1 351.9 380.7
4000 353.9 378.0 405.8
4200 375.1 401.9 429.2
4400 381.8 423.4 447.7
4600 402.5 439.1 464.1
4800 402.3 450.5 474.9
5000 405.4 463.2 481.3
5200 408.9 471.8 488.0
5400 422.2 478.8 492.3
5600 416.8 474.6 489.5
5800 411.9 468.1 487.1




That's good info, but keep this in mind;

- 1) actual differences will depend on the build, heads and camshaft selection. My cam, for example, is designed for the HP manifolds and simply wouldn't have that kind of difference.

- 2) dyno is fine, but in the real world you need to compare the complete exhaust system, not just the first 2 feet of it.

- 3) There are a great many cars making more than 500hp using manifolds, so if 500hp is the goal, it can be done with manifolds too.


Not saying that headers don't have their place, but if you don't want to run them, you can make the power without them...might cost a bit more though.



Dave


1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 1974 'Cuda 2008 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Ram 3500 Diesel 2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel 2003 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Durango Limited [url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
Re: HEADERS on a 440 - Pros, Cons?? #1400852
03/18/13 03:53 PM
03/18/13 03:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
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Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
Quote:

http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/mopp_0106_manifolds_vs_headers/viewall.html

dyno results, stock 440 iron manifolds vs. Hedman shorties vs. Hedman Elite with 1 3/4" tubes:

Horsepower
RPM Manifold Shorty Elite
3000 256.2 260.9 271.7
3200 274.0 275.9 289.0
3400 295.5 297.0 319.1
3600 310.0 325.0 350.0
3800 330.1 351.9 380.7
4000 353.9 378.0 405.8
4200 375.1 401.9 429.2
4400 381.8 423.4 447.7
4600 402.5 439.1 464.1
4800 402.3 450.5 474.9
5000 405.4 463.2 481.3
5200 408.9 471.8 488.0
5400 422.2 478.8 492.3
5600 416.8 474.6 489.5
5800 411.9 468.1 487.1





Heh... Hey, i'm a big header fan, but i still wonder if the header companies paid for that article or not. Obversely you could build an engine that wouldn't respond nearly that well to a header swap. I'd imagine the F.A.S.T. guys are in that boat.

Re: HEADERS on a 440 - Pros, Cons?? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1400853
03/18/13 04:45 PM
03/18/13 04:45 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
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Posts: 3,300
Northern Indiana
Those gains are very believable. I just did a similar test on a street 360. Ill throw a quick graph on here but I cant show everything since I just submitted the article .
Blue lines are torque red ,horsepower
Not sure if other guys that write for magazines have a better deal than me or not. I am lucky if I get paid enough to cover the parts I purchase,much less fuel ,wear and tear on my test engines ,wear and tear on my dyno,time to run all the tests,and put it all into an article.
The Purple Shaft cam comparison I just got paid for didn't cover the cost of all the camshafts I bought. I am doing testing because I want to learn what works,I share as much of it as possible .
Back on track,I saw pretty similar gains on a 325 horsepower360.

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