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Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393803
03/14/13 05:26 PM
03/14/13 05:26 PM
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U.S.S.A.
JohnRR Offline
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Quote:

5 speed, 6 speed, ANY kind of OD (well, anything but that factory 4-speed OD anyways).




What's the problem with the factory OD ??? It's fits into your budget ... CHEAP ...

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Fury Fan] #1393804
03/14/13 09:36 PM
03/14/13 09:36 PM
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the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader Offline OP
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Quote:

Well, you hafta have higher CR with alum due to higher heat loss, so depending on where you're at, that aspect might be a wash vs a stock Mag. The higher turbulence due to CR should still give benefit, though, but I wonder if the Mag ports compensate for that better than Eddy???

I'm not sure we could automatically say the Eddy is superior to a Maggie simply because it's 8 years newer, though. I'd bet Mopar had lots more resources to develop/refine that head vs Eddy (heads are crucial to emissions compliance), plus the heads are both for vastly different purposes. Both are better than an OEM bigblock head, without doubt.

Either way, Eddy is beyond the scope of what Pale is looking for.




I dont know what the small block Edelbrocks look like, but the big block ones came out around the same time and they're still based off ov 50 year old dinosaur tech. The chambers are a complete afterthought and for that reason alone i'd never use them. The Edelbrock Magnum heads look pretty good though.

Its not always about flow, and so many people still insist that it is. If it was just about flow we'd all still be driving rectangle-port big blocks, 460's and 440-1 Indy 440's around and getting 7mpg.

And yeah... heh... i'm pretty far away from budgeting a pair ov aluminum heads into the mix...

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: JohnRR] #1393805
03/14/13 09:39 PM
03/14/13 09:39 PM
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Pale_Roader Offline OP
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Quote:

Quote:

5 speed, 6 speed, ANY kind of OD (well, anything but that factory 4-speed OD anyways).




What's the problem with the factory OD ??? It's fits into your budget ... CHEAP ...




Well... i've been in one, in a pretty similar combo/car than i'm trying to build here, and i just did not like the gear spread. That said, if i get this rig running, and later find one that will bolt right in, i'll probably try it out. But i just dont think its much ov a performance transmission with that gearing.

Plus... i'm still pretty choked that i just recently sold a nice unit. Grrr...

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393806
03/15/13 09:54 AM
03/15/13 09:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,122
Grand Haven, MI
patrick Online content
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

5 speed, 6 speed, ANY kind of OD (well, anything but that factory 4-speed OD anyways).




What's the problem with the factory OD ??? It's fits into your budget ... CHEAP ...




Well... i've been in one, in a pretty similar combo/car than i'm trying to build here, and i just did not like the gear spread. That said, if i get this rig running, and later find one that will bolt right in, i'll probably try it out. But i just dont think its much ov a performance transmission with that gearing.

Plus... i'm still pretty choked that i just recently sold a nice unit. Grrr...




if you use a fast ramp, moderate duration, wide LSA cam, the wide gear spreads isn't as much of an issue. narrow LSA's maximize peak torque at the expense of wide powerband. wide LSA cams sacrafice peak torque for wider torque curve....take 2 cams identical, but with different LSA's....the narrow one (say, a 106 LSA, like the whiplash cam) might give and extra 10-20lb ft of peak torque at ~4000 RPM, but above the torque peak, the torque curve falls off faster, and it may be down 10-20lb-ft at 6000 RPM compared to a cam with a 112LSA, like the Voodoo cams...the wider, flatter torque curve will be more forgiving of wider gear ratios, IMHO....


1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: patrick] #1393807
03/15/13 12:06 PM
03/15/13 12:06 PM
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Kalispell Mt.
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HotRodDave Offline
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The voo-doo cam lobes will work with chevy lifter diameters, just because they don't use that exact lobe on a chevy cam does not mean they are not chevy style lobes. Just look at the how fast they lift VS duration is on those lobes, they fall right between two chevy cam lobes in both lift and duration.

Patrick is correct, the narrow LSA is gonna suck all the fun out of the engine, either one.

Just to clarify I would use what I had even if it was just 383 stuff, even though I know the 5.9 magnum would be a better package.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: HotRodDave] #1393808
03/15/13 02:10 PM
03/15/13 02:10 PM
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Posts: 16,122
Grand Haven, MI
patrick Online content
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Quote:

The voo-doo cam lobes will work with chevy lifter diameters, just because they don't use that exact lobe on a chevy cam does not mean they are not chevy style lobes. Just look at the how fast they lift VS duration is on those lobes, they fall right between two chevy cam lobes in both lift and duration.

Patrick is correct, the narrow LSA is gonna suck all the fun out of the engine, either one.

Just to clarify I would use what I had even if it was just 383 stuff, even though I know the 5.9 magnum would be a better package.




actually, Harold from Ultradyne did the Voodoo cams for Lunati, and he's claimed that the chrysler ones use a .904" lifter diameter specific lobe....


1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393809
03/15/13 04:51 PM
03/15/13 04:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,665
Milwaukee, WI
Prince_Valiant Offline
top fuel
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Milwaukee, WI
for fwiw, my first version of my Valiant was an economical and quick car using the 4 speed OD that it came w/ from the factory.

Nothing wild...basic 9:1 360 w/ the MP purple shaft .450/.455 cam. Heads were stock w/ 3 angle valve job, hedman headers, eddy performer intake, holley single feed 600cfm vacuum secondary carb, MP electronic ignition w/ orange box and accel high voltage coil.

Powered through a Ram clutch and the 4 speed O/D through an 8 1/4 rear w/ 2.94 gears.

GREAT driving car with enough mid range to pull through the wide gear spacing and the tall gearing. Cruised along at 70mph at ~ 2000rpm.

Ran 14.2's all day, great pull out of the hole w/ the 3.09 first gear. Driven very conservatively it was easy to get 20+mpg, with my best ever being a 200 mile trip on the hwy avg 25mpg. The tired 318 that preceded it only did a best of 24mpg on the same route a year before


1979 Dodge Lil' Red Express - 360 rwhp, 13.2 @ 103mph
1968 Coronet: 318, 2.76, 15.2 @ 92mph! (SOLD)
1976 Valiant: 360, 3.90, 12.90 @ 106 (SOLD)
1989 Shelby CSX #500/500
Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Prince_Valiant] #1393810
03/16/13 02:18 AM
03/16/13 02:18 AM
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montana
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pjc360 Offline
mopar
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I'd go with the 360 magnum, Roller cam, more efficient heads. Better fuel mileage, cheaper parts, not by much but still a little cheaper vs a 383. I love my 360 magnum been a solid engine for me.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: pjc360] #1393811
03/16/13 06:32 AM
03/16/13 06:32 AM
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Oakdale CT
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Quote:

I'd go with the 360 magnum, Roller cam, more efficient heads. Better fuel mileage, cheaper parts, not by much but still a little cheaper vs a 383. I love my 360 magnum been a solid engine for me.




One factor being ignored is the roller cam- I'm sold after playing around with the 5.9 in my Duster that a modern roller cam is THE only way to go.

I'm old school who has used a dozen or so purple shaft cams to good effect but blown away with what you can get away with with a good roller. There is no way in hell you can make the same lobe with a flat tappet cam that you can make with a roller.

My Duster is just as happy lugging along at 1500 RPM in OD as it is winding out at 6000 RPM.

That being said I'm not sure what the purpose of this thread is- The OP looks to me has already made up his mind before posting and has all 383 parts and no magnum parts.

Drop the 383 in and move on.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: HotRodDave] #1393812
03/16/13 03:12 PM
03/16/13 03:12 PM
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Gainesville,FL
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Quote:

The voo-doo cam lobes will work with chevy lifter diameters, just because they don't use that exact lobe on a chevy cam does not mean they are not chevy style lobes. Just look at the how fast they lift VS duration is on those lobes, they fall right between two chevy cam lobes in both lift and duration.

Patrick is correct, the narrow LSA is gonna suck all the fun out of the engine, either one.

Just to clarify I would use what I had even if it was just 383 stuff, even though I know the 5.9 magnum would be a better package.


The voodoo mopar cams do not work with chevy or ford lifters,they are a little safer(farther from the lifter edge by design) but not useable without the .904 lifter. Small lobes are fine with wide lsa's,your not going for power just a mild driver. When you put enough lobe in one you will need to tighten the lsa so as not to make a pooch.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: goldmember] #1393813
07/04/13 06:08 AM
07/04/13 06:08 AM
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the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader Offline OP
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Zombie thread... back from the dead!



Here is the plan: gonna toss that lowdeck junk in the car and use it for as long as i have to. I may try a different cam, i may not. Quite frankly, the difference between a suggested cam (like the Voodoo) and the one i had planned aint gonna be a deal-breaker... they're both gonna suck for mileage. I refuse to use a stock sized cam like an MP cam, or any cam that was designed 30 years ago, or by Chevy guys.

But the root idea here is (once the car is out and driving with the 383) to now get that Magnum 360 in the car as soon as possible. Driving around in this or that, reading voraciously since the last post, and seeing the price ov gas go up another 10¢ has made my mind. I want the smallest most powerful (non-boost or NOS) engine possible. Ford has the lock here, but i'll have to do with a 360 for now.

That magazine build (450HP Magnum 360) has me very intrigued, so i'll collect parts for that combo as i drive. Down the road, the REAL plan will be to actually build an engine... a nice tight-quench light-internal 318 Magnum... with the Edelbrock Magnum heads. Should be good for 400HP+ and still get me a few provinces over at speed without a mortgage.

The cool thing about a small efficient engine is that when you're pinched... if the car is light enough and geared decently (OD plus decent final gears) you can part-throttle the thing and save a LOT ov gas over the best-combo'd big block. It takes a modern design... and for that i'm utterly sold on the Magnum. Too bad Dodge never made a 281cid world-beater like Ford did... (and no, i dont want the 4.7 SOHC).

Been a cool thread. Too bad Dulcich never got back to me...

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393814
07/04/13 09:58 AM
07/04/13 09:58 AM
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dulcich Offline
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P Roader, I must have missed it. What were you asking? Always liked your threads.
dulcich

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: dulcich] #1393815
07/04/13 10:49 AM
07/04/13 10:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
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Brookeville, Md
again, $ for $ a 383 will stomp a 360 or any SB build.


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Coming soon!!!!
Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1393816
07/04/13 02:59 PM
07/04/13 02:59 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,245
Between a rock & a hard place
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cudadoug Offline
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Quote:

again, $ for $ a 383 will stomp a 360 or any SB build.




MAYBE in OEM form. M A Y B E. But "any SB build"???? Slow down there before you hurt yourself...LOL!

But just for grins, let's see all of the fast 360's and 383's and compare...


Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: cudadoug] #1393817
07/04/13 05:04 PM
07/04/13 05:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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Quote:

Quote:

again, $ for $ a 383 will stomp a 360 or any SB build.




MAYBE in OEM form. M A Y B E. But "any SB build"???? Slow down there before you hurt yourself...LOL!

But just for grins, let's see all of the fast 360's and 383's and compare...






yeah? $ for $ so you drop 5k into a 360 and I'll drop 5k into a 383 and I'll spot you a light or 3. You can even run an A-body if you like.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1393818
07/04/13 08:26 PM
07/04/13 08:26 PM
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the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader Offline OP
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

again, $ for $ a 383 will stomp a 360 or any SB build.




MAYBE in OEM form. M A Y B E. But "any SB build"???? Slow down there before you hurt yourself...LOL!

But just for grins, let's see all of the fast 360's and 383's and compare...






yeah? $ for $ so you drop 5k into a 360 and I'll drop 5k into a 383 and I'll spot you a light or 3. You can even run an A-body if you like.




Hey now... if you guys are going to turn this into a 360 vs 383 bench race, at least keep the strokers out ov it. I'd even say keep the aftermarket blocks out too...

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: dulcich] #1393819
07/04/13 08:30 PM
07/04/13 08:30 PM
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the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader Offline OP
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Quote:

P Roader, I must have missed it. What were you asking? Always liked your threads.
dulcich




Oh, i didn't have one. You just asked about my combo in your last post. I thought maybe you were going somewhere with that.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393820
07/04/13 08:46 PM
07/04/13 08:46 PM
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Posts: 1,073
st.cloud fl
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d-150 Offline
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My opinion would be roller 360 aluminum heads edelbrock intake 10.5 compression.

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: d-150] #1393821
07/04/13 08:48 PM
07/04/13 08:48 PM
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st.cloud fl
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d-150 Offline
Smarter than a 5th grader?
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st.cloud fl
But 440 different story

Re: 360 Magnum vs 383... What would make more power? [Re: Pale_Roader] #1393822
07/05/13 10:52 PM
07/05/13 10:52 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar Offline
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451Mopar  Offline
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Aurora, Colorado
Stock vs stock, I'd take the 360 Magnum. Mildly modified, I think I would still take the Magnum for cost reasons. Highly modified, I'd take the 383.

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