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Options for no-fuss alternator upgrade? #1377172 01/27/13 05:55 PM 01/27/13 05:55 PM
Joined: Jul 2011 Posts: 817 Eugene, Oregon Secret Chimp OP super stock
Secret Chimp OP super stock Joined: Jul 2011 Posts: 817 Eugene, Oregon	The original alternator on my 67 Coronet is getting a little tired and probably won't support a headlight or electric fan upgrade in the future. I've read up on all of the upgrade paths, and I just want something that doesn't force me to mess with brackets or a bunch of wiring changes. Is there a factory alternator I can install that will work with my 67 318 (iron water pump and timing cover) that will support a single big electric fan and/or upgraded headlights in the future? What are brands to look for if I want to go with a new-reman (junkyards are slim to no pickins around here)? I don't mind running some wires underhood but I'd like to keep the ammeter operational if I can. 1967 Dodge Coronet Deluxe station wagon 1.03" T-bars, QA1 arms/rods, Cordoba/GM Metric/Volare brake & knuckle, XHDs, Hellwig rear sway, 318 Magnum w/ air gap, 727, 3.23s

Re: Options for no-fuss alternator upgrade? [Re: Secret Chimp] #1377173 01/27/13 06:29 PM 01/27/13 06:29 PM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 8,670 A Andrewh master
Andrewh master A Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 8,670	without spending big bucks on an alternator, like the powermaster round back, no, not really. the easiest and cheapest one is still the newer square back. 89 mbody that all parts stores carry for around 50 bucks. The only mod I had to do was buy the 10 dollar GM chrome swing arm from the parts store and some spacers to move it out so it would line up with the alternator. I honlestly don't remember how that works without a longer bolt, or where I got the longer bolt from, but that was the only bracket type mod. to get it to run, just ground either of the field wires and run your old field wire to the other one. it will give you 74 or 78 amps vs the current round back you have 36 or 45 amps. all for under 100 bucks including core charge.

Re: Options for no-fuss alternator upgrade? [Re: Secret Chimp] #1377174 01/27/13 08:09 PM 01/27/13 08:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2010 Posts: 92 PA 6 68_CONV_300 member
68_CONV_300 member 6 Joined: Jun 2010 Posts: 92 PA	you do NOT want to keep the ammeter if you upgrade the alternator, it is not designed to handle an upgraded alternator. install a volt meter and be done with it

Re: Options for no-fuss alternator upgrade? [Re: 68_CONV_300] #1377175 01/27/13 09:42 PM 01/27/13 09:42 PM
Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 12,481 Chino Valley RodStRace I Live Here
RodStRace I Live Here Joined: Sep 2005 Posts: 12,481 Chino Valley	Quote: you do NOT want to keep the ammeter if you upgrade the alternator, it is not designed to handle an upgraded alternator. install a volt meter and be done with it Let's use this analogy... "I have a 1920's house with a 120V 30 amp service and meter. I want to run a 220 V 40 amp arc welder and air compressor in the future. Can I just hook up the 220 to the meter without redoing any wiring or the meter?" Cue burning house...

Re: Options for no-fuss alternator upgrade? [Re: RodStRace] #1377176 01/27/13 10:14 PM 01/27/13 10:14 PM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours Supercuda About to go away
Supercuda About to go away Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours	Let's use this analogy. Bleeding releases the evil spirits making a person sick. If you do not know what you are doing anything could make sense to you. The ONLY job of a factory installed ammeter is to measure the current into or out of the battery, period. The output of the alternator will have no change on that. If you improperly wire accessories (feed off the battery rather than the alternator) then you will have problems regardless of alternator, stock or upgraded. Much like bleeding, if you do not know what you are doing, don't do it. They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.

Re: Options for no-fuss alternator upgrade? [Re: Supercuda] #1377177 01/27/13 11:07 PM 01/27/13 11:07 PM
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,526 North Carolina cjskotni pro stock
cjskotni pro stock Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,526 North Carolina	Quote: The ONLY job of a factory installed ammeter is to measure the current into or out of the battery, period. The output of the alternator will have no change on that. If you improperly wire accessories (feed off the battery rather than the alternator) then you will have problems regardless of alternator, stock or upgraded. Couldn't have said it better myself! With no other changes, an upgraded alternator will actually HELP not burn up the charging system as it will lead to less discharge/charge cycles everytime you idle the car. The problem comes in when you upgrade the alternator, add electrical loads, AND wire them improperly. Any continous loads while the car is running should always be wired to the alternator stud, not the battery terminal/starter relay. Wiring loads like fans, pump, etc here is what will burn up the wiring/ammeter quickly. Do a search on this topic as it is beat to death all the time here. FWIW, I have reproduction STOCK harnesses all over my car, factory ammeter, running with a 100 amp alternator with 20 amp electric fans and I get less current pull through the ammeter than I did with the original 60 amp alternator and mechanical fans. The fans pull right off the alternator stud so when the motor is running and fans are on, it doesn't pull any current through my ammeter (from battery). Do your homework and read up on this. If you have the factory "roundback", you should be able to drop in the factory squareback (earlier 60 or later 78 amp) and use the same brackets. As said before, ground one of the field terminals to the case. You can get as high as a 100 amp unit in the aftermarket squareback design (what I did) which would be the best you are going to do without wiring mods or bracket fabrication. I have the "Tuff Stuff" unit and so far, so good.

Re: Options for no-fuss alternator upgrade? [Re: cjskotni] #1377178 01/28/13 12:59 PM 01/28/13 12:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376 D dogdays I Live Here
dogdays I Live Here D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376	ACCMEC's point should not be dismissed out-of-hand. Original current flow for Mopars is 100% through the ammeter. This works fine until it doesn't. If the ammeter fails for some reason and an electrical type fire starts it will take the car with it. Put 2 1/2 times as much power through the stock ammeter and it is 2 1/2 times worse. I've had an alternator fire and it was impressive, flames shooting out of the alternator a foot high until I was able to disconnect the battery. Now, if one hooks up the loads directly to the alternator, then the ammeter will not see the entire charging current and it will be safer. But replacing the ammeter in the dash with a voltmeter is a good idea for everyone. R.

Re: Options for no-fuss alternator upgrade? [Re: dogdays] #1377179 01/28/13 01:41 PM 01/28/13 01:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2013 Posts: 49 northwest indiana P pyrojim member
pyrojim member P Joined: Jan 2013 Posts: 49 northwest indiana	So, if the battery is dead or close to it, what is the solution to charging it with a high output alternator without going through the ammeter? Can I run a #8 wire or the likes from the alternator to the battery? Will that help ease the load in this case??? Thanks

Re: Options for no-fuss alternator upgrade? [Re: pyrojim] #1377180 01/28/13 03:34 PM 01/28/13 03:34 PM
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,526 North Carolina cjskotni pro stock
cjskotni pro stock Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,526 North Carolina	Quote: So, if the battery is dead or close to it, what is the solution to charging it with a high output alternator without going through the ammeter? Can I run a #8 wire or the likes from the alternator to the battery? Will that help ease the load in this case??? Thanks This is a popular thing to do - bypassing the ammeter via a 8ga wire. This will take most of the load off the ammeter and make the charging ciruit "safer" from meltdowns. However, it doesn't look stock at all and it renders the ammeter practically useless. If you don't care about staying stock and having an accurate ammeter, than this is not a bad idea at all. A lot of people here will also tell you to put in a 30 or 40 amp fuse as well on this wire for added protection. I don't disagree with bypassing the ammeter or converting to a voltmeter. I want my car to look original and have all the gauges (including ammeter) accurate so not for me. Still not a bad idea if you are so inclined. I just wanted to point out that just adding the hi output alternator is not going to cause you car to burst into flames.

Re: Options for no-fuss alternator upgrade? [Re: cjskotni] #1377181 01/28/13 06:20 PM 01/28/13 06:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2013 Posts: 49 northwest indiana P pyrojim member
pyrojim member P Joined: Jan 2013 Posts: 49 northwest indiana	"I just wanted to point out that just adding the hi output alternator is not going to cause you car to burst into flames" " Because that would suck alot"!!!!

Re: Options for no-fuss alternator upgrade? [Re: cjskotni] #1377182 01/29/13 02:45 AM 01/29/13 02:45 AM
Joined: Jun 2010 Posts: 92 PA 6 68_CONV_300 member
68_CONV_300 member 6 Joined: Jun 2010 Posts: 92 PA	Quote: Quote: So, if the battery is dead or close to it, what is the solution to charging it with a high output alternator without going through the ammeter? Can I run a #8 wire or the likes from the alternator to the battery? Will that help ease the load in this case??? Thanks This is a popular thing to do - bypassing the ammeter via a 8ga wire. This will take most of the load off the ammeter and make the charging ciruit "safer" from meltdowns. However, it doesn't look stock at all and it renders the ammeter practically useless. If you don't care about staying stock and having an accurate ammeter, than this is not a bad idea at all. A lot of people here will also tell you to put in a 30 or 40 amp fuse as well on this wire for added protection. I just wanted to point out that just adding the hi output alternator is not going to cause you car to burst into flames. OK ... where to start here .... 1st .. you condone a 30 or 40 amp fuse on the output of a 100 amp alternator ... umm ... really ... you just wasted your money on a 100 amp alternator ... 2nd ... your at a car show and your battery is dead due to left on lights or a a stuck relay on your cooling fan ... do you really think the 1st thing you are going to think of is disconnecting the alternator when your buddy jumps the car to get it running, and your 100 amp alternator kicks in and starts charging ? please ... 3rd ... how is hooking 9 extra wires to the alternator stud better looking than adding them to the starter relay stud ? (or battery ?) 4th the battery is the biggest Capacitor that you could possible add to your car ... BAR NON ... every fuel injection and ignition manufacture recommends that you hook main power into the battery not the alternator ... the "noise" coming off of an alternator pretty unreal ... don't believe me ? hook an oscilloscope up to the stud one day set the reference to 14 volts and look at the results ... even easier ... hook your radio or amp main power up to the stud and you can listen to the "noise" ... Last edited by accmec; 01/29/13 02:47 AM.

Re: Options for no-fuss alternator upgrade? [Re: 68_CONV_300] #1377183 01/29/13 09:38 AM 01/29/13 09:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md 3 383man Too Many Posts
383man Too Many Posts 3 Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md	The reason many say hook up hot feeds to add on circuits to the alt stud or anywhere between the alt and ammeter is because with the car running all of the current to the added on systems will not go thru the ammeter as it will leave the alt and go right to the added system. Coming off the battery side of the ammeter means your alt output would have to go back thru the ammeter to get to the added on systems. As was stated the only time you would have alot of current going thru the ammeter like this is if you have a dead or very low battery. You dont have to come right off the alt stud as long as you hook up the hot feed between the alt and ammeter its the same deal. Course if you bypass the ammeter and go to a voltmeter then id dont matter. Ron

Re: Options for no-fuss alternator upgrade? [Re: 68_CONV_300] #1377184 01/29/13 10:11 AM 01/29/13 10:11 AM
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,526 North Carolina cjskotni pro stock
cjskotni pro stock Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,526 North Carolina	Quote: 1st .. you condone a 30 or 40 amp fuse on the output of a 100 amp alternator ... umm ... really ... you just wasted your money on a 100 amp alternator ... 2nd ... your at a car show and your battery is dead due to left on lights or a a stuck relay on your cooling fan ... do you really think the 1st thing you are going to think of is disconnecting the alternator when your buddy jumps the car to get it running, and your 100 amp alternator kicks in and starts charging ? please ... 3rd ... how is hooking 9 extra wires to the alternator stud better looking than adding them to the starter relay stud ? (or battery ?) 4th the battery is the biggest Capacitor that you could possible add to your car ... BAR NON ... every fuel injection and ignition manufacture recommends that you hook main power into the battery not the alternator ... the "noise" coming off of an alternator pretty unreal ... don't believe me ? hook an oscilloscope up to the stud one day set the reference to 14 volts and look at the results ... even easier ... hook your radio or amp main power up to the stud and you can listen to the "noise" ... 1/2. Unless the motor is revving at 3000 RPM+ alternator output will be much less than 100 amps. Usually around 50-60 amps at idle when you would be charging a dead battery. The fuse is more to protect the battery from being charged too quickly in this case. My "100 amp" alternator will charge a MAX (totally dead battery) at around 35-40 amps at idle. This was confirmed with a clamp gauge. Needless to say, I didn't let it do this long and hooked the battery up to a charger for a while to not strain the charging circuit so badly. My body guy also put in a deep cycle battery which will tend to pull more current than a regular battery but I digress... 3. This is the difference between the load going thru the ammeter (and dash harness/bulkhead) or not. So, yeah matters quite a bit. 4. Yes alternator puts out noise. Regardless of whether you tap into the alternator stud or the battery side, you are on the same charging circuit so the noise will be roughly the same. Also, any quality fuel pump/electric fan won't "care" about this. We aren't talking sensitive electronics here... I am sorry but I have to respectfully disagree with the points made above. Just look at a wiring diagram or contact member Nacho here...he has some good diagrams tha explain this.

Re: Options for no-fuss alternator upgrade? [Re: cjskotni] #1377185 01/29/13 12:31 PM 01/29/13 12:31 PM
Joined: Sep 2012 Posts: 180 3rd rock K kloyiod
kloyiod K Joined: Sep 2012 Posts: 180 3rd rock	Here's a little homework readin for you. On my 69, what I did was go to the bone yard and grabbed the alt, reg., and as much wiring as I could off a 74 Mopar [I forget what?] and followed this. http://www.imperialclub.com/Repair/Electrical/charging.htm Mind you I had the old black box reg and now has the new style flat type regulator. If I recalled correctly the alt I grabbed is a 70-75 amp unit compared to a lower amp unit. I have never been happier with my charging system after doing this. I didn't even mess around with bypassing anything and it's been over 7 years now with no problems. Good Luck

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