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Similar to your car, I have the original tires that probably still have the original air in them since the owner put a set of Keystones on it almost immediately and put the tires, hubcaps and fender skirts in dry storage and they will probably stay there after I complete the car.

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It appears both of us will need to use the same "carbon dating" kit in order to prove the validity of our statements. Steven Juliano spent the weekend visiting with me a couple of weeks ago and he ALSO spoke of a couple of his cars that tires have never been tweaked or inflated in over 20 years.
So the question is Shannon, who is going to purchase the carbon dating equipment? Do you want me to get the test unit and ship it to you after I have completed testing or should I wait for you to get it and then rent it from you at a later date?
Why do these things always have to get so complicated?

Thanks again!

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We have a full lab at work, but no carbon dating equipment.....Yet! Maybe I can shove it in on a CA sometime and justify it as Engineering Cost. I like the guys idea above too, date coded air compressor may save us all some time, I assume my tires may need to be topped off a little anyway.

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Along with using a date coded air compressor, may I suggest using this air compressor only in the general vicinity of where your assembly plant is/was. The compressor will also need to have the air in it pumped out leaving only a vacuum, we don't need contaminated air.

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The air is already contaminated,I'm back!

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So, does that mean your a complete jerk to everyone you know, or just the people you are jealous of? There are too many jealous petty people in this world that criticize others to mask their own lack of ability. Enjoy being making an A$$ of yourself, it does serve to amuse the rest of us.

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Well "SPORT", there is nobody in this world I'm jealous of.Never was,never will be.Well,maybe you!As for ability,I'll match mine with yours anytime.

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the rest of us are enjoying ourselves and aren't threatened by the fact dave's cars are nicer than ours.

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While that is a very kind compliment, it is definitely not true. There are MANY cars that are “nicer” or just as nice as what we have done. I would even venture to say that every car that is refurbished or restored has attributes that make it unique or just as “nice” to its owner. I have seen custom vehicles that convey craftsmanship unequaled to any thing we have ever done. What we do is better described as “different”. Every vehicle plays a significant role in the Car World that we all enjoy.

PS....I hope that the "well wishers" (or sometimes called nay sayers) continue to stick around. All joking aside, sometimes they really DO make comments that prompt constructive input or ideas!

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One of the classier statements in this thread. Dave, your enthusiasm is contagious, and we can learn from all restorations and information, whether it be a race car or the challenge that is ahead of you guys. Everyone can enjoy the hobby in their own way, just try to respect those that go a different route.

Looking forward to my glass set for my A12. Thanks for giving us choices for restoration needs.

Rick.

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The only thing I could think of was to locate an absolutely pristine Survivor that still had EVERY single original part, hose, gasket, weather strip, etc…. that it did when it left the assembly line.

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It even has the original air in all 5 tires.

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All of the original air, in all five tires, or just some of the original air? Are all five still fully inflated to the factory-correct pressure?

I may have missed it, or perhaps you did not mention it, but how many miles are showing on the odometer of this car?

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Thanks again Rick!

Dave Stuart (aka DODGE MATERIAL) and I just got back from the LONG road trip of picking up the car. We spent over an hour in his assembly shop looking the car over very very closely. Unbelievable is all I can say. We are really excited about this project and will start posting tidbits of it's original attributes over the next couple of days.
Anything in particular that someone would like to see first? Stay tuned!!

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Anything in particular that someone would like to see first?

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Since this is an A-body and I know you are doing a package tray project....

I saw a 80K 71 Duster in a shop about 6 months ago. I noticed it had stitched edging to the package tray. Sure looked original, but didn't have a camera with me.

So yesterday at Fall Fling I see what looks to be an original package tray with the outline of stitched ends. Also had the indentations for popouts for the rear shoulder belt option. Seller can't remember if it was a Dart or Duster

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The only thing I could think of was to locate an absolutely pristine Survivor that still had EVERY single original part, hose, gasket, weather strip, etc…. that it did when it left the assembly line.

I'm following along and reading your answers Dave, and I have ask how you're going to handle parts/pieces/assemblies involving gaskets, especially those gaskets which do not usually make it through the disassembly process well enough to allow them to be used again upon re-assembly?

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In reference to my post about the rear package tray edging that is revelant to this discussion (as opposed to the pot stirrer's)... Does the car have edging sewn the package tray??

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Dave, If you came across some line workers name they wrote or smeared in the coating like in the trunk would you put it back?

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I think Dave is trying to accomplish more with this one other than a perfect car. Correct me if I'm wrong Dave.

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Hi Mr. C,
You have correctly assessed some of the rationale of doing this car. The A Body guys have been asking me (a long time) for the same attention that the B & E Body guys have received. It amazes me that people who have never seen the car, or even know what it is, have such definite OPINIONS about it. Even more comical is how one guy emailed me telling me what MY true intentions are concerning this project and not to argue with him otherwise! Maybe he can fill me in on what I think about other factors in my life. First of all the car will have to be worked on with the same mindset of the previous projects we did. The only difference will be that hundreds of hours on eBay and tens of thousands of dollars will not have to be allocated in finding parts. Some here say that is like shooting fish in a barrel?!? Since when did spending time looking for parts on eBay, Hemmings, etc…. constitute “factory documentation and research.” The CAR is the research!! I feel fortunate in not having to go through those arduous, (usually) necessary evils. As a matter of fact Chris, look at all the grief I took from these same individuals who did nothing but argue and nit pick about all the different parts that I DID have to locate after the fact. My Challenger was a complete car but the parts were in a condition that did not allow me to reuse the majority of them during the restoration. I was criticized for THAT particular scenario and now that I have found a way to keep ALL the original parts with the car, I am STILL getting chastised for! (I know the underlying basis of their criticism though.)
This car will still require a tremendous amount of time and artistic effort to end up with the desired results. ALL the bare metal will have to be reconditioned to look like new. The engine will have to be pulled and repainted to look like new again. The transmission will have to be detailed to look like new. The engine bay, K Frame, Rear End Housing, Power Steering Unit, Trunk, etc…. will have to be repainted to look like new again. The reoccurring theme here is “like new again.” I personally do not like the looks of a 40 year old survivor vehicle. While they are very nice, they do not look NEW. I enjoy making them look like factory fresh without the final result looking deliberate or “home made.”
For those who can’t understand how this helps the reproduction market, it is quite simple. As I go about disassembling AND DOCUMENTING EVERY SINGLE SCREW AND THE DIRECTION THEY WERE FACING WHEN REMOVED, I will have perfect examples of parts to format the new reproductions from. That is the beauty of this ordeal. Having pristine samples to make new products from. Isn’t that always a big complaint in the reproduction market? The parts just don’t look or fit just right! Nowhere did I ever say that these reproduction products will end up on this car. The original parts are nice enough for me to rework and restore them to look like new. I personally think it is beneficial NOT to have to spend endless hours replacing and having to find NOS parts. (Not to mention the economics of the project.) I think I have already put enough time and effort in that particular area with the last two cars. The first car was an incorrectly restored vehicle that we re-did and the critics said, “big deal…you took the characteristics from other original cars and put them back on yours”. The next car was a completely original car that needed many parts to be replaced with NOS parts. The critics came back with, “yeah but you didn’t put the correct NOS parts on the car that you should have”. Now I have a survivor and they have done a 180 from the FIRST scenario and are griping about this! Do you get the feeling it is not about what is being done with the cars but something that goes a little deeper with these people? For those that don’t appreciate or approve of the direction of this project….tough! Take care of yourselves and enjoy your life (and cars) the way you see fit.

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The only thing I could think of was to locate an absolutely pristine Survivor that still had EVERY single original part, hose, gasket, weather strip, etc…. that it did when it left the assembly line.

I'm following along and reading your answers Dave, and I have ask how you're going to handle parts/pieces/assemblies involving gaskets, especially those gaskets which do not usually make it through the disassembly process well enough to allow them to be used again upon re-assembly?

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I don’t think that paper items like gaskets or even certain paper tags fall into the realm of original "parts" if they need to be replaced.

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Huh? You typed, in your original post, "Not a single reproduction part, not even (hopefully) an NOS part. A car that is new with ALL the original components that it was born and manufactured with."

If a gasket was on the car when orignally built, why do you consider them to not be parts like any other part that the car was built with?

I wouldn't normally be so picky, but you did type "ALL" in caps and you've been steadfast in defending your position that this car retain all of it's original parts. If you don't doesn't keep or re-use every single part it was built with, the word all does not apply, by definition.

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Items like paper gaskets are classified just like the paint that will be used to re-spray items such as the axle tube, power steering unit or K-frame.

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"Classified" by whom?

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Just for the record the owner told us the air was still original in the tires. Who could ever know for sure?!

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And did you believe him/her that the tires never lost any air in 30+ years?

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In The Pink....You shouldn't question the way Dave words things...He's very sure of what he means....

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Well maybe his definition of ALL is not correct, hence the questioning. If he states ALL parts will be original, then replaces a part with a non-original part, ALL no longer applies. I don't have an issue with replacing a part (he mentioned brake lines, for example), but then you can not say ALL parts are original.

To say you don't consider a certain type(s) of part to be the same as other parts is a cop-out, excuse, etc. He set the standard (that ALL parts would be orignal to the car), and now he's not following the standard (doesn't consider some parts to be considered parts), so then he should change his claim of using ALL original parts. That's why I question.

I don't have any issue with Dave's work or his products. I know they are top notch, but if you publicly make claims, I feel you should hold yourself to them, and not make exceptions, period. Would it be a PITA to lave all of the gaskets in place? Of course it would, but this is no ordinary resto, so why not go that extra step and keep it all original?

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boy if i had the money id buy a hemi cuda, numbers matching, with all the documentation.....

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How about this one? What would you think of smashing the Cuda with the Challenger in one of those classy videos?

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If I would have started this thread asking you what "parts" are involved in building a car, how would you have answered?

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Would you have referenced the paper engine ID tag that was found under the alternator bolt? What about a piece of tape that was used to hold down a vehicle traveler sheet? And what about the primers and paints? How did you overlook THAT area of "parts" regarding your definition of "ALL".

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You seem to have forgotten that you were the one who used the term ALL in your original post, so I'm questioning how you can make that claim regarding gaskets. I understand from your answers that you do not consider gaskets to be parts, so that still allows your definition of ALL to apply.

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Why didn't you call out the antifreeze or the gasoline? What about the brake fluid or the grease that will be used to re pack the wheel bearings? I could go on and on but do I really need to? Did you really think that "ALL the parts" were actually about perishables on the car? It seems that many people have opinions relating to certain areas while overlooking other areas of concern. I still stand by the wording "ALL of the parts"! It would be extremely hard to RE paint an original part with the original paint wouldn't it? Parts are Parts!

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You mentioned the statement by the P.O. that the tires still contain the original air, yet you consider the replacement of perishables to be acceptable. Do you consider air in the tires to be a perishable item?

I'd love to hear an answer regarding my question about the air in the tires, which, based on the P.O.'s word, is original air....

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The perishables are a totally different area of reference. Would you have even have had your rebuttal had I not told the truth regarding the subject and what would be in play for being replaced?

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