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Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? #1366618
01/08/13 07:32 PM
01/08/13 07:32 PM
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carcrazyguy Offline OP
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The bodyshop is getting closer to painting the undercarriage on the 70 Duster. I have not decided on how I would like the bottom of the car. For those that have done this in the past, which would you suggest?

Car is FJ5 and these are the two ways I am trying to decide.
Bottom full green treatment (with Lizard skin like material) with only the wheel well areas blacked out.
Or
Bottom of the car gray paint (with Lizard skin like material) so that it appears primer similar to factory appearance. Frame rails green body color and black wheel well area. Similar to the original factory detail.

The car is not going back stock and is not a number matching car so not worried about that.

Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? [Re: carcrazyguy] #1366619
01/08/13 07:41 PM
01/08/13 07:41 PM
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Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms Offline
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I'm a bit biased

7538783-71Duster.jpg (8005 downloads)
Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #1366620
01/08/13 07:48 PM
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ScottSmith_Harms Offline
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Of course it will depend on what kind of car you are building, a restored original or a Hot Rod/Clone, etc. If it's a rarer model I'd keep it as original as possible. IMO the act of painting the bottom of the car to be all new and shiney "Jumped the Shark" a long time ago. A more factory correct look is the current trend that I see more and more these days. To me it looks even more attractive to attempt making them look as they really did. In any event I'd choose between painted and the over sprayed look of my car above, I wouldn't use any kind of Lizzard Skin or other undercoating product, it gives the look of someone trying to hide rust or other ills to most onlookers.

If you are worried about corrosion think about how you plan to drive the car. Most of these cars never see more water than the end of a hose in your driveway to wash them off occasionally, it's not likely the bottom will rot out of it if you don't coat it in some kind of bead liner/POR15/Rust shield product, especially if you do a good job of getting rid of all the rust that is there in the first place and do a proper metal prep before adding a good primer/sealer and quality paint job.

7538792-71Duster2.jpg (1281 downloads)
Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #1366621
01/08/13 08:09 PM
01/08/13 08:09 PM
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carcrazyguy Offline OP
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It was originally a /6 car so not likely to ever be worth a whole lot. I may, "may" go with late model 5.7/6.1 when the time comes. Other wise it will be a 408. It will have 4 wheel disc brakes also. So resto mod I guess would cover the build style.



The material the shop was planning to use was similar to lizard skin. He said the name of it, but I was busy looking over the body and parts. So I don't recall the exact name.

Last edited by carcrazyguy; 01/08/13 08:12 PM.
Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? [Re: carcrazyguy] #1366622
01/08/13 08:16 PM
01/08/13 08:16 PM
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Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms Offline
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Sounds like a fun build In any event, I'd avoid letting the "shop" spray anything but paint and primer on your car. Have you looked at the work so far? How nice does the work on floor pan look? Sometimes shops cuttimg corners will push some type of textured undercoating etc. to cover up shoddy work on thier part, something to consider.

Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #1366623
01/08/13 08:34 PM
01/08/13 08:34 PM
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carcrazyguy Offline OP
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Floors are super solid. Texas panhandle car that was factory under coated car also. I have some pics I will post when I get home later this week. The only real rust was a quarter sized spot on each rear quarter and pin holes in the spare tire well.

Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #1366624
01/08/13 08:37 PM
01/08/13 08:37 PM
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Quote:

Of course it will depend on what kind of car you are building, a restored original or a Hot Rod/Clone, etc. If it's a rarer model I'd keep it as original as possible. IMO the act of painting the bottom of the car to be all new and shiney "Jumped the Shark" a long time ago. A more factory correct look is the current trend that I see more and more these days. To me it looks even more attractive to attempt making them look as they really did. In any event I'd choose between painted and the over sprayed look of my car above, I wouldn't use any kind of Lizzard Skin or other undercoating product, it gives the look of someone trying to hide rust or other ills to most onlookers.

If you are worried about corrosion think about how you plan to drive the car. Most of these cars never see more water than the end of a hose in your driveway to wash them off occasionally, it's not likely the bottom will rot out of it if you don't coat it in some kind of bead liner/POR15/Rust shield product, especially if you do a good job of getting rid of all the rust that is there in the first place and do a proper metal prep before adding a good primer/sealer and quality paint job.






I did paint mine fully underneath and I don't regret it (yet) but I'd probably go with a more stock look if I did another. Whatever I do I will never use bedliner or anything remotely similar and would avoid undercoating as well (except for the wheelwells). I like to be able to see the metal, joints, etc. and don't like anything covering that up.

The OP's car isn't exactly a stock resto, so I'd say "fill your boots" but I'd still avoid the bedliner and similar products...just don't see the need.


Dave


1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 1974 'Cuda 2008 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Ram 3500 Diesel 2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel 2003 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Durango Limited [url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? [Re: DPelletier] #1366625
01/08/13 08:59 PM
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Thats a hard question, but the good news is that you can do what you want and not worry about scrubbing the value of your car. It is a good idea to undercoat the wheel wells like factory to avoid chips there, but in the underneath of your car will be fine especially in West Texas. After spending many days scraping the underneath of the car, I was not about to reapply the dealership undercoating to maybe have to scrape again one day. If you don't mind the splotchy primer meathod, then go for it. I hate it but thats my preference - a completely painted surface.


"It takes a Mopar to catch a Mopar!" 1969 Charger R/T 440 1969 Road Runner 383 1970 Cuda 440
Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? [Re: carcrazyguy] #1366626
01/08/13 09:40 PM
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My B-Body has a primer colored paint on the bottom for protection and then just blow through of the green body color where it was correct. Looks great when the bottom is put together.

Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? [Re: carcrazyguy] #1366627
01/08/13 10:08 PM
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I agree with the comments on the lizard skin underside. It always seems to me that you are hiding something. I did the full paint on my first resto. It is an EW1 whte car and looks pretty sanitary underneath. The next project will be more factory correct. I plan on primer grey colored single stage urathane paint underside with color overspray like the factory.


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Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? [Re: RoadRunner] #1366628
01/09/13 12:53 AM
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From what the body man told me. The product he was planning to spray, it would be body color and have a semi smooth texture.

My thought, it must be something similar to what GM used on the rocker panels of cars in the 80'-90's? It was almost unnoticeable until you looked close. Then it looked like it had a bit of an orange peel texture.

Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? [Re: carcrazyguy] #1366629
01/09/13 01:06 AM
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Scott, is your car sprayed (smooth) black on the underside? I only have my phone up here while I am checking on my car. I won't be near my computer until Thursday, to get a better view.

Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? [Re: carcrazyguy] #1366630
01/09/13 01:34 AM
01/09/13 01:34 AM
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I used rock-it bed liner on my challenger. Looks like undercoating but will spray clean when washed. I know not everyone likes it, but this car will be driven daily. They like to use tar and chip on the roads here in summer also. So painting it wouldn't be a good option for me. I do like the factory look over paint. Paint looks pretty until its back on the ground and not seen much, so unless it's a show car, I see no point to it.


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Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? [Re: Silver70] #1366631
01/09/13 10:59 AM
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Yes my car has a smooth under body. The paint you see is a dark color to simulate the factory dip coating product used at the Los Angeles plant (The LA factory used a product that was dark, almost black, the other plants used a grey colored dip). This was a lower body dip coating material that all cars went through before being primed and painted.

I used an epoxy primer underneath and added the blackish paint over that. The paint has a very similar dull gloss sheen as the original product did. The combo of the two products will do a great job of keeping the metal sealed and protected against any future rust issues and is easy to wipe clean if it gets dirt or grime on it. The car is not an OE show car effort, it's just being painted and detailed to resemble what the factory did in terms of outer body paint coverage.

My car did not come with factory undercoating so just the wheel wells had it. After I install the fuel tank and fuel & brake lines I'll be adding the undercoating to the rear weel wells only and some of the surrounding areas to duplicate what the plant did. Since it's an LA car there was none in the front wells, only the rears. Other plants did all 4 wells.

Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #1366632
01/09/13 11:51 AM
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Use the the bedliner unless you want to park it over a mirror and stare at it like some do.

Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? [Re: wannadrag] #1366633
01/09/13 01:33 PM
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Quote:

Use the the bedliner unless you want to park it over a mirror and stare at it like some do.




my car lasted 40 years with nothing but the factory primer underneath and needed only one small floor patch. Given it's "non daily driver" status and the fact that it is fully painted and not winter driven, I calculate that it will last for approximately 100 years this time...Bedliner just isn't needed unless you are planning on mounting up some snow tires or going 4x4ing with your car.

To the OP, yes it sounds like that "lizard skin" is similar to textured rock guard or something similar. I still wouldn't use it as it covers up the detail in the metal as Scott said. Only you can decide what you want, but I stand by contention that a good coat of paint is all that's required for 99% of us with classic cars.




Dave


1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 1974 'Cuda 2008 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Ram 3500 Diesel 2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel 2003 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Durango Limited [url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? [Re: Silver70] #1366634
01/09/13 02:43 PM
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Quote:

I used rock-it bed liner on my challenger. Looks like undercoating but will spray clean when washed. I know not everyone likes it, but this car will be driven daily. They like to use tar and chip on the roads here in summer also. So painting it wouldn't be a good option for me. I do like the factory look over paint. Paint looks pretty until its back on the ground and not seen much, so unless it's a show car, I see no point to it.




Agree completely...

Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? [Re: DPelletier] #1366635
01/09/13 05:14 PM
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Quote:

Bedliner just isn't needed unless you are planning on mounting up some snow tires or going 4x4ing with your car.





I live on a partially black topped driveway. The cost would be too much to finish it to my house and it's basically mud when it rains here. So grab the hose with a nozzle when I wash it and I can spray the underside clean. I have my reasons, no need to go as extreme as snow or offroading In a few months, when the tar and chipping starts, you can't go 5 miles without having to deal with it.

Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? [Re: Silver70] #1366636
01/09/13 05:49 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

Bedliner just isn't needed unless you are planning on mounting up some snow tires or going 4x4ing with your car.





I live on a partially black topped driveway. The cost would be too much to finish it to my house and it's basically mud when it rains here. So grab the hose with a nozzle when I wash it and I can spray the underside clean. I have my reasons, no need to go as extreme as snow or offroading In a few months, when the tar and chipping starts, you can't go 5 miles without having to deal with it.




They don't do that tar thing here and my driveway is concrete. I don't doubt your solution works for you, my point was (and is) that 99.9% of peoples cars, given their useage, would hold up just fine with a good coat of paint.

I was mainly posting to counter the ridiculous contention by a previous poster that bedliner should be used on all cars except trailered show cars with mirrors underneath.

some people get completely carried away; many of these cars lasted for decades with nothing but a coat of primer underneath....and when they were new, most were daily drivers and not treated with any special care for the first 10 or 20 years of their life.



Dave


1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 1974 'Cuda 2008 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Ram 3500 Diesel 2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel 2003 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Durango Limited [url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
Re: Painting undercarriage....over restore or not? [Re: DPelletier] #1366637
01/10/13 04:13 AM
01/10/13 04:13 AM
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Rust Belt, SW PA
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I understand what your saying. My cars underside was getting coated with something and I just thought the bedliner was a good choice... looks better than undercoating, good sound deadner and most of all it's easy to clean.

I've yet to work on an old mopar that wasn't factory undercoated, so I can't really say on how well they hold up without it. My ram however has nothing and being in the north and in the salt, 220k later, other than some rust, it does still look nice on the underside. So maybe it is overkill using a liner. It took me maybe 20 mins to spray the car, so if nothing else, it makes me feel better about it

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