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Re: Race gas in street cars....
[Re: 383man]
#1360985
12/31/12 05:24 PM
12/31/12 05:24 PM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,780
Alabama
Mopar-Al
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6,780
Alabama
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Jason, the car I built for Don, runs on pump gas. Jeff at modern done his heads. I am sure Don will want to line up with you  Go easy on him, he is on a budget and is still your friend. Most build what they can by their budget, and really take pride on what they have to run. Someone is always faster with more money to spend. I myself have a smaller cube engine than you, I do have 1 headlight and tail lights if you want to do a heads up. It's all in fun. Since I live around all these round tracks, 110 leaded is sold at a lot of stations around here. 6.85 a gallon. Our track is 10 bucks to race, or choose a local road. You can street race all day and never be bothered out in this county I'm in. You sure stirred up some people on this post.
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Re: Race gas in street cars....
[Re: rickraw]
#1360987
12/31/12 07:00 PM
12/31/12 07:00 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,491
Oologah, Oklahoma
Big Squeeze
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,491
Oologah, Oklahoma
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Here's another way to look at it...like someone already said, you can get race gas around $6.85/gallon....I use straight Av-Gas in all my own cars which runs about $1.00 more per gallon than 91 octane, so I'm paying about $4.50/gallon...91 octane is about 3.20/gallon here... It's commonly known that more compression equals more efficiency which equals better fuel mileage...Having said that, if your pump gas car gets 8 miles/gallon and mine gets 14 miles/gallon, after 2,000 miles of driving you've spent $800 and I've spent $642 on Av-Gas....and I could run real race gas and still would only cost me $978, which is only $180 with 2,000 miles of driving AND with everything else being equal I made more power because I can run more camshaft when running higher compression.... People always look at JUST what race gas costs per gallon when they really should be looking at the whole picture... 
If you can't handle the truth, you're living a lie.......
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Re: Race gas in street cars....
[Re: Big Squeeze]
#1360989
12/31/12 11:37 PM
12/31/12 11:37 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,593
Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,593
Great Neck,LI,new york
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Quote:
Here's another way to look at it...like someone already said, you can get race gas around $6.85/gallon....I use straight Av-Gas in all my own cars which runs about $1.00 more per gallon than 91 octane, so I'm paying about $4.50/gallon...91 octane is about 3.20/gallon here...
It's commonly known that more compression equals more efficiency which equals better fuel mileage...Having said that, if your pump gas car gets 8 miles/gallon and mine gets 14 miles/gallon, after 2,000 miles of driving you've spent $800 and I've spent $642 on Av-Gas....and I could run real race gas and still would only cost me $978, which is only $180 with 2,000 miles of driving AND with everything else being equal I made more power because I can run more camshaft when running higher compression....
People always look at JUST what race gas costs per gallon when they really should be looking at the whole picture...
 Well said 
HEMI-ITIS has no cure.
My condition is fully BLOWN!!
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Re: Race gas in street cars....
[Re: bwhackd34]
#1360992
01/01/13 09:18 AM
01/01/13 09:18 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,008
A shed in England
Tig
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,008
A shed in England
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I would run race gas all day if it was as cheap as pump gas. C12 is around $30.00 a gallon and C16 around $38.00 a gallon over here. For comparison pump gas is around $8.00 a gallon. Just my Cheers, Tig 
'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge.
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
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Re: Race gas in street cars....
[Re: slippery440]
#1360995
01/01/13 10:15 AM
01/01/13 10:15 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,008
A shed in England
Tig
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,008
A shed in England
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Quote:
Quote:
As octane is added it reduces the fuels volatility..making it less reactive thus less suceptible to pre-ignition. By doing so it also reduces the fuels power producing ability...the reason higher octane fuels 'make' more power is because the engines that they do so in were out of 'spec' for the lower octane fuel...ie...poor tune, too much realized compression, too small cam etc....and required the higher octane to produce proper combustion. The most power is made when using the LOWEST octane fuel you can use WITHOUT encountering pre-ignition.
I love it when guys go to the track the one time only for the year and the first thing they do is go buy 110 race fuel for their 9.5 compression motor.
OK I'll rephrase my previous post.
Quote:
I would build my motor to run race gas all day if it was as cheap as pump gas. C12 is around $30.00 a gallon and C16 around $38.00 a gallon over here.
For comparison pump gas is around $8.00 a gallon. Just my
Cheers, Tig
'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge.
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
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Re: Race gas in street cars....
[Re: Winchester 73]
#1360997
01/01/13 10:31 AM
01/01/13 10:31 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,248
Plymouth, MI
Blusmbl
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,248
Plymouth, MI
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Quote:
and here i was thinking i would get some good intel on what its like to run race gas in a street car. 
I KEEP FORGETTING THIS ISNT THE SAME MOPARTS IT WAS YEARS AGO! 
I'm sure complaining about it, then not adding any useful tech will help the situation! 
Yes, adding compression will make an engine more efficient. Being generous, a 1 point increase in CR is worth at most a 2% boost in overall power, and that number goes down as CR increases, too. I could see a fuel economy jump from 8 to 14 mpg only if you were comparing something like a 500" stroker at 9:1 with a grossly oversized cam, to a smallblock at 14:1 with a better cam choice. The efficiency goes up with the CR increase, but it isn't going to be such a drastic jump unless the previous combination was just terrible. Unfortunately I think Wayne is trying to point out that many of the pump gas combos people have with our old Mopars aren't anywhere close to optimized. There are stock motors in motorcycles and some cars that have 12:1 static CR these days. They're all aluminum blocks/heads, decent head/quench design, and efi with much better air/fuel and timing control than what most 60's era musclecars have though.
I have one of these poor combos in my Jeep. The previous owner put a decent size cam in it, I'm guessing it's about 240 @ 50 duration. It has a stock smog era AMC 360 in it otherwise, with maybe 8.2:1 CR. Because of the cam and it's intake closing point, it makes about 115 psi of cranking compression. It's terrible, no bottom end power at all, gets 9mpg with 3.54 gears and 33" tires, etc. The engine would be much happier with that same cam with another 3 points of static CR. But it's not a fair comparison, because the combination of parts is poor to begin with. If the cranking compression got up to 180-190 by swapping slugs with that same cam it wouldn't be such a turd to drive and the fuel economy would go up, too.
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Re: Race gas in street cars....
[Re: Blusmbl]
#1360998
01/01/13 10:43 AM
01/01/13 10:43 AM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,491
Oologah, Oklahoma
Big Squeeze
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,491
Oologah, Oklahoma
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Quote:
Quote:
and here i was thinking i would get some good intel on what its like to run race gas in a street car.
I KEEP FORGETTING THIS ISNT THE SAME MOPARTS IT WAS YEARS AGO!
I'm sure complaining about it, then not adding any useful tech will help the situation!
Yes, adding compression will make an engine more efficient. Being generous, a 1 point increase in CR is worth at most a 2% boost in overall power, and that number goes down as CR increases, too. I could see a fuel economy jump from 8 to 14 mpg only if you were comparing something like a 500" stroker at 9:1 with a grossly oversized cam, to a smallblock at 14:1 with a better cam choice. The efficiency goes up with the CR increase, but it isn't going to be such a drastic jump unless the previous combination was just terrible. Unfortunately I think Wayne is trying to point out that many of the pump gas combos people have with our old Mopars aren't anywhere close to optimized. There are stock motors in motorcycles and some cars that have 12:1 static CR these days. They're all aluminum blocks/heads, decent head/quench design, and efi with much better air/fuel and timing control than what most 60's era musclecars have though.
I have one of these poor combos in my Jeep. The previous owner put a decent size cam in it, I'm guessing it's about 240 @ 50 duration. It has a stock smog era AMC 360 in it otherwise, with maybe 8.2:1 CR. Because of the cam and it's intake closing point, it makes about 115 psi of cranking compression. It's terrible, no bottom end power at all, gets 9mpg with 3.54 gears and 33" tires, etc. The engine would be much happier with that same cam with another 3 points of static CR. But it's not a fair comparison, because the combination of parts is poor to begin with. If the cranking compression got up to 180-190 by swapping slugs with that same cam it wouldn't be such a turd to drive and the fuel economy would go up, too.
Exactly....it's pretty common for some guy's 12 second thrown together combo to get 8 miles/gallon...while a nicely built, scienced out combo that runs 10's can get 14mpg +... 
Having said that, my car runs 127mph in the 1/4 through manifolds on nuts at 3,590lbs....has good quench...plenty of timing at cruise (vacuum advance)....A/F is in the mid to high 13's....so I'm sure it does OK, but I've honestly never driven through a whole tank without going WOT and power shifting 20-30 times...LOL  because I could honestly not care any less about what kind of mileage it gets or what I spent on race gas (unless it cost $30+/gallon like mentioned  )....
To me, race gas is just like any other consumable involved with hot rods, like oil, tires, valve springs and roller lifters...it's just part of the territory..
If you can't handle the truth, you're living a lie.......
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Food for thaught.........that 9.79 was my first pass on new tires and fuel system leaving at 1500 r`s(normally likes 3000+) and not even a good burn out so since you challenged to "drag me down the track" I accep as long as we can meet in the middle...............you better tune her up......... 
in one breath you say people can build cars how they want and then in the next breath you start this ghey YellowBullet type thread about how you can't understand it and then start bagging on someone about it.... 
