Re: 68 Charger 451 engine build 25 MPG and 515 HP
[Re: Oyvind Mopar]
#1355311
12/19/12 09:24 PM
12/19/12 09:24 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 42 British Columbia Canada
Chargervic
OP
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OP
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Posts: 42
British Columbia Canada
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Quote:
Impressive numbers. One thing I do not understand: The streetHemi with all the good parts inside made 490 in torque, the 440 magnum had 480, some GM 455 engines had around 500, this was SAE in the 70's (Which were known to be optimistic). Then this example is 20% more in dynoed torque, at almost the same swept volume and a tad more CR. Can it be correct? What have I missed? Are the Stealths like supercharging an engine? Do the 451 light weight pistons matter at 2000 rpms? Please explain, I am really interested in how this can be done, as a 523 stroker I built some years ago with 11,7:1, 590 cam, M1 intake + 1050, and ported St6 heads barely made 600 lbsft. I am building a 400 stroker for my driver with 6 speed manual transmission, and will try to aim for some mileage as our gas is on the world's cost peak..... Thanks, Oyvind Mopar
I bought a brand new Hemi Coronet 500 in 1966, it ran low 14's @ 100 MPH. My Charger runs in the high 11's @ 115. The difference lies in many things, like lightweight pistons, narrow rings, and a much greater attention to detail regarding friction reduction than Ma Mopar ever thought of back in the 60's. Don't forget that the lift of the roller cam is better and the rate of rise is much better. I don't think the Stealth heads are a huge improvement over my old iron 452's, but I wanted to get quench and the aluminum heads allow a higher CR. If you use Comp's cam selection site and input fuel economy as a priority, this is the cam it selects. That's not how I arrived at this cam choice, but it confirmed my thinking. Remember, most of my driving is only on the center carb. Fuel economy is in the right shoe.
68 Charger 451 / 518
65 Cuda 273 / 833
04 Cummins 2500 2WD
02 Grand Caravan
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Re: 68 Charger 451 engine build 25 MPG and 515 HP *DELETED*
[Re: Chargervic]
#1355312
12/19/12 10:01 PM
12/19/12 10:01 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 793 Utah
topbrent
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 793
Utah
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Re: 68 Charger 451 engine build 25 MPG and 515 HP
[Re: LaRoy Engines]
#1355315
12/20/12 01:28 AM
12/20/12 01:28 AM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 42 British Columbia Canada
Chargervic
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OP
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British Columbia Canada
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Well I for one believe it is possible. I have gone 584 lb-ft at 5000 rpm to 583 lb-ft at 6900 rpm with a peak of 604 lb-ft at 6100 rpm using a pump gas 451 stroker. It'll give 500 lb-ft for a 4000 rpm range, from 3500 rpm to 7500 rpm. You're right it isn't 600, but it's close enough for me to believe someone better'n me could do it.
Thanks for the support. I didn't post this information to boost my ego. I was asked to post my engine formula in order to help others with their projects. The other "experts" are the reason I don't post very often. I've been helping others in the hobby for over 50 years and have never had a customer experience an engine failure, ever. Must be doing something right.
68 Charger 451 / 518
65 Cuda 273 / 833
04 Cummins 2500 2WD
02 Grand Caravan
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Re: 68 Charger 451 engine build 25 MPG and 515 HP
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1355317
12/20/12 09:20 AM
12/20/12 09:20 AM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,057 The Great White North
RAMM
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,057
The Great White North
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You guys aren't reading it right. The OP states that his 451 generates 600 ft/lbs from 2000 rpm to 4000 rpm! It's not the actual torque number--a VERY well scienced out 451 can do that-just NOT at 2000 rpm. But whatever I'd take a ride in it. J.Rob
2009 PHR\EMC Competitor 2010 PHR\EMC Competitor 2011 PHR\EMC Competitor 2012 PHR\EMC Competitor 2013 PHR\EMC Competitor 2014 HotRod/EMC Competitor 2015 HotRod/EMC NoShow 2016 HotRod/EMC 3rd place SPEC Bigblock 2018 HotRod/EMC 7th place G3
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Re: 68 Charger 451 engine build 25 MPG and 515 HP
[Re: Chargervic]
#1355319
12/20/12 12:05 PM
12/20/12 12:05 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 559 Idaho
LaRoy Engines
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 559
Idaho
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Quote:
Well I for one believe it is possible. I have gone 584 lb-ft at 5000 rpm to 583 lb-ft at 6900 rpm with a peak of 604 lb-ft at 6100 rpm using a pump gas 451 stroker. It'll give 500 lb-ft for a 4000 rpm range, from 3500 rpm to 7500 rpm. You're right it isn't 600, but it's close enough for me to believe someone better'n me could do it.
Thanks for the support. I didn't post this information to boost my ego. I was asked to post my engine formula in order to help others with their projects. The other "experts" are the reason I don't post very often. I've been helping others in the hobby for over 50 years and have never had a customer experience an engine failure, ever. Must be doing something right.
I've not done it at 2000 rpm, haven't tried and don't think I ever will, as my focus is a whole other direction. But a dyno sheet, if available, would spark another debate I'm sure.
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Re: 68 Charger 451 engine build 25 MPG and 515 HP
[Re: LaRoy Engines]
#1355320
12/20/12 12:12 PM
12/20/12 12:12 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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I'd like to see the dyno sheet..... but I have a suspicion he is using a desk top dyno.... if he does have a dyno run post the sheet.... we are curious
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Re: 68 Charger 451 engine build 25 MPG and 515 HP
[Re: FastmOp]
#1355325
12/20/12 01:53 PM
12/20/12 01:53 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
You experts need to get a life. He's trying to share his build and you folks are acting like he has done something wrong. He had a nice combo that makes good power and good milage and all you experts keep harking on is the 600tq at 2000 rpm. It makes you all look like tools. Everyone on here knows that's optimistic as the peak tq. for that combo but you feel you must give your expert opinions ha ha. How bout you try to work on your cars instead of your post counts! ha ha ha
OP. nice combo, I would like to see some pics of the car. Them old chargers are some of the best looking MoPars made.
If you notice I never said anything bad about his combo and I have something close to it in my 38 Ply but I havent driven it yet... so I'm curious about the torque curve.... I could care less if its off but I would like to see how flat it is
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Re: 68 Charger 451 engine build 25 MPG and 515 HP
[Re: FastmOp]
#1355326
12/20/12 03:59 PM
12/20/12 03:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,282 A gulag near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,282
A gulag near you.
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Quote:
You experts need to get a life. He's trying to share his build and you folks are acting like he has done something wrong. He had a nice combo that makes good power and good milage and all you experts keep harking on is the 600tq at 2000 rpm. It makes you all look like tools. Everyone on here knows that's optimistic as the peak tq. for that combo but you feel you must give your expert opinions ha ha. How bout you try to work on your cars instead of your post counts! ha ha ha
OP. nice combo, I would like to see some pics of the car. Them old chargers are some of the best looking MoPars made.
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Re: 68 Charger 451 engine build 25 MPG and 515 HP
[Re: JohnRR]
#1355327
12/20/12 04:15 PM
12/20/12 04:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,025 S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,025
S.E. Michigan
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It only takes one idiot to wreck the whole discussion....
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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