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Re: Green Bearings [Re: Fury Fan] #134462
10/17/08 01:07 PM
10/17/08 01:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,568
Omaha, Nebraska
Scott Carl Offline OP
pro stock
Scott Carl  Offline OP
pro stock

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,568
Omaha, Nebraska
Quote:

This topic is a good example of one of my favorite phrases: 'Just because someone knows how to work on things doesn't mean they know how things work.' There are good points (and bad points) brought up by both sides here.

About a year ago I found a copy of this article, today I was able to find it on the web. I encourage everyone with an interest in this topic to read this article and learn a little about bearings. It clearly explains the advantage the tapered bearing has over a roller bearing in a wheel bearing application.

The factory application/designs have a Factor Of Safety associated with them, and it's evidently high enough that a lower-capacity roller bearing can be installed in its place without a tremendous amount of failures.

The roller bearing is clearly inferior to the tapered roller from a load-bearing perspective, however there are other factors in a rear axle application that are the reason this topic brings passionate feelings from both sides. We should focus on simple things like engine oil or filters instead.

As for me, I'll stick with my Timken rollers, clean/re-grease them periodically, and worry about my other worries instead...

http://www.schaeffler.com/remotemedien/m...here_roller.pdf




Awesome article! Very informative. Thanks, FF
Scott

Re: Green Bearings [Re: Scott Carl] #134463
10/17/08 09:13 PM
10/17/08 09:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,193
Omaha Ne
T
TJP Offline
I Live Here
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Omaha Ne
Timkens here, roller bearings are for roller skates, chevy's and Ford's.

My

Tim

Re: Green Bearings [Re: TJP] #134464
10/18/08 07:48 AM
10/18/08 07:48 AM
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Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
M
MoparforLife Offline
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Upper Midwest
Quote:

Timkens here, roller bearings are for roller skates, chevy's and Ford's.

My

Tim


Roller skates I have seen have ball bearings. Skateboards too.
The OEM 8 3/4 bearing is a tapered roller. Just because it say Timkin doesn't make it a tapered roller. They make all kinds of bearings. And not only Timkin makes bearings for this application that fit and work.

Re: Green Bearings [Re: MoparforLife] #134465
10/18/08 09:18 AM
10/18/08 09:18 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 190
Wilmington,NC
I
I go fast Offline
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Wilmington,NC
But,Timkin introduced the tapered roller,others copied!

Re: Green Bearings [Re: I go fast] #134466
10/18/08 09:39 AM
10/18/08 09:39 AM
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Upper Midwest
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MoparforLife Offline
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Quote:

But,Timkin introduced the tapered roller,others copied!


In 1898 they were patented by Timkin.
My point above is that the posted info is incorrect.
The 8 1/4 rear uses a caged non-tapered roller bearing with the axle itself as the inner race. A lot of the time if a bearing goes south it takes the axle with it

Re: Green Bearings [Re: fbernard] #134467
10/18/08 11:33 AM
10/18/08 11:33 AM
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Coronado, CA
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go-fish Offline
mopar
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Coronado, CA
Quote:

Quote:

Fabien,

I'm guessing your friend has the Wilwood kit with parking brake shoes in the rotor hat.



Yep, that's the one. Wilwood kit 140-7144 .

Quote:

Did you install the snap ring directly against the housing end? Unfortunately, Wilwood's instructions don't mention you must use the 5 hole retainer that comes with the bearings as a shim to properly space the axles away from the differential internals. Otherwise, constant preloading will destroy the wheel bearings.




Ooops! you're right, we never used this retainer (thanks Wilwood). We'll try and see what happens.

Thanks Cass!

Edit :
when we installed the kit, the axles did not touch each other. Where would the preloading come from? is the housing not deep enough for the bearing?





Looks like I have some work to do. I have the same Wilwood kit and never driven it. I have just rolled it from spot to spot. I noticed recently a screeching noise. I bet it is already screwed up because I didn't use this 5 hole spacer.

Dr. Diff, how much are your Green Bearings and do they come with the 5 hole spacer? Can I just buy the 5 hole spacer if the bearings aren't torn up? I have just pushed it to and fro a total of 100 yards in the past year.


70 'cuda: ProCharged 408, Tremec 5 speed, S60,triangulated 4 link, Hydroboost and Wilwoods
Re: Green Bearings [Re: go-fish] #134468
10/18/08 11:51 AM
10/18/08 11:51 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,016
Polson, MT
DoctorDiff Offline
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I sell Green bearings for $60 pair. Unfortunatley, the retainers are not available separately.

I could probably get some shims laser cut the next time I need some 1/8" parts made, but I don't know when that will be.

Re: Green Bearings [Re: DoctorDiff] #134469
10/18/08 12:11 PM
10/18/08 12:11 PM
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Coronado, CA
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go-fish Offline
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I'm going to go out now and pull the brakes and take a look. It was a year ago but I went straight off Wilwoods instructions so if it didn't say to do it I didn't do it.


70 'cuda: ProCharged 408, Tremec 5 speed, S60,triangulated 4 link, Hydroboost and Wilwoods
Re: Green Bearings [Re: go-fish] #134470
10/18/08 04:32 PM
10/18/08 04:32 PM
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Coronado, CA
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go-fish Offline
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Doctor Diff,

Alright, I disassembled the brakes and I did not use the five hole 1/8" plate.
I did some digging and luckily found them.

So what you are saying is I need to install those against the axle flange and then re-assemble the Wilwood kit as it was?

This is not my photo but the five hole plate with the flat top is what I've got, just to make sure. I found the Wilwood instructions and it does not mention using this.

Thank God I have not driven with it like this. And thak you Dr. Diff. Wilwood dropped the ball on this.

BTW, this is on an S-60. I didn't find out about Dr. Diff until after I purchased the rear. If only I would have known I would have saved money and headaches I would have given my buisness to Dr. Diff.

I told Strange I was going to use the kit. They sell Baer or something and they told me they didn't recommend Wilwood. I asked them why and they could not tell me so I assumed it was because they were trying to sell me another companies brakes and wuldn't make any money there. I already have the Wilwood fronts that came with my Alter-k-tion.
I am not satisfied with thier customer service.

Also, when I pulled the axle a ton of fluid came out like it was over filled. I am thinking now that thier diff girdle housing oil level plug is located a little high. What is the fluid capacity of a Dana.

It says alot about a guy that helps out when you didn't even give him buisness. Thanks again Doctor.


70 'cuda: ProCharged 408, Tremec 5 speed, S60,triangulated 4 link, Hydroboost and Wilwoods
Re: Green Bearings [Re: go-fish] #134471
10/18/08 06:12 PM
10/18/08 06:12 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
HealthServices Offline
Why would you even post that?
HealthServices  Offline
Why would you even post that?

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Posts: 7,759
So Cal
I just installed a set from Doctordiff today here is a picture of the order I put them on the axle. The plate first, the gasket can be added later to prevent ripping, then the bearing, collar, and the seal goes in the housing.






If you are working with a jack on the ground, jack the side you are working on a little higher than the other side and do one side at a time. The oil will stay in the rear end that way.


Allen Here's a novel idea, let's not throw a bunch of parts at the car hoping it will fix the problem and instead spend a little time diagnosing it first. Life was a little easier when I was just a wrench.
Re: Green Bearings [Re: go-fish] #134472
10/18/08 06:41 PM
10/18/08 06:41 PM
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Posts: 8,016
Polson, MT
DoctorDiff Offline
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That only applies to OEM 8 3/4" and OEM Dana 60 sure-grips with the thrust block in the center that originally used tapered wheel bearings.

If the splines are long enough, and the axles are not excessively long, you don't have to add the spacer plate.

I would trial fit the axles into the housing. Make sure both wheel bearing snap rings fit snug against the housing end before installing the brakes.

Re: Green Bearings [Re: DoctorDiff] #134473
10/19/08 12:17 AM
10/19/08 12:17 AM
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Coronado, CA
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go-fish Offline
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I think the Strange is the same in respects to this as OEM. But you're saying my rear might not need the five hole plate? Because it isn't a stock 60?
I will put it back together and check it out. If I do have to put the spacer on, where do I put it? Do I put it right on the housing end flange or the outside of the kits bearing retainer plate and run the retainer nuts up against it there?

Sorry but the prospect of smoking the bearings right off the bat has me concerned about this kit. I know it's gotta be annoying.

Here is the "Exploded Assembly Diagram and Parts List" so hopefully that can show folks where 5 hole plate goes exactly. I would like to give Wilwood some feedback on this. It is hard to imagine people have been tearin up bearings with their kit and Wilwood hasn't corrected the instructions.

4759223-Wilwood1.jpg (355 downloads)
Re: Green Bearings [Re: go-fish] #134474
10/19/08 12:59 AM
10/19/08 12:59 AM
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Coronado, CA
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go-fish Offline
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I think this is a better scan. Please show where exactly the 5 hole flange that comes with the bearings goes.

4759261-Wilwood1001.jpg (528 downloads)

70 'cuda: ProCharged 408, Tremec 5 speed, S60,triangulated 4 link, Hydroboost and Wilwoods
Re: Green Bearings [Re: go-fish] #134475
10/19/08 03:56 AM
10/19/08 03:56 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,759
So Cal
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Why would you even post that?
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So Cal
Ok, Sorry I’m thinking of getting the same brake setup as you so I want to understand the setup too, better for me to learn now.
Please confirm if you have the 140-7144 brake setup, because here are the instructions in PDF form.


https://www.jegs.com/InstallationInstructions/900/950/950-140-7144-D.pdf


According to the instructions it states you need to remove the stock floating retainer and install the one that comes in the kit. According to the figure 7 both the backing plate and the bearing retainer is used to retain the bearing. This is stated in the paragraph to the left of figure 7.

Right?

Sorry to the OP this is way OT now. Should of started a new topic.





Anyone for pancakes?

Re: Green Bearings [Re: HealthServices] #134476
10/19/08 08:46 AM
10/19/08 08:46 AM
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Blair County,PA
62maxwgn Offline
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Only if Sausage is included!

Re: Green Bearings [Re: HealthServices] #134477
10/19/08 11:49 AM
10/19/08 11:49 AM
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Coronado, CA
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go-fish Offline
mopar
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Quote:

According to the instructions it states you need to remove the stock floating retainer and install the one that comes in the kit. According to the figure 7 both the backing plate and the bearing retainer is used to retain the bearing. This is stated in the paragraph to the left of figure 7.

Right?





Well that is what the instructions say but Fabians friend alledgedly smoked his bearings immediately after installing this kit due to not using the 5 hole retainer. The kit says not to use it but Dr. Diff, who I trust knows full well about rear ends (maybe he should take up proctology ), says Wilwood should advise installers to use the retainer on at least OEM applications.

I just want to know where in the exploded view I need to put them. Couldn't hurt using them even if my C-clips are firmly seated in the housing end, right?


70 'cuda: ProCharged 408, Tremec 5 speed, S60,triangulated 4 link, Hydroboost and Wilwoods
Re: Green Bearings [Re: go-fish] #134478
10/19/08 12:02 PM
10/19/08 12:02 PM
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Q
quick77rt Offline
Parts Problem
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I can just see things 40 years from now....people will still be looking for green bearings and alot of our kids will be in the parts store asking where to find dr diff parts.

Re: Green Bearings [Re: quick77rt ] #134479
10/19/08 12:08 PM
10/19/08 12:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
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Coronado, CA
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go-fish Offline
mopar
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Coronado, CA
And this thread will still be going!


70 'cuda: ProCharged 408, Tremec 5 speed, S60,triangulated 4 link, Hydroboost and Wilwoods
Re: Green Bearings [Re: go-fish] #134480
10/19/08 01:29 PM
10/19/08 01:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,016
Polson, MT
DoctorDiff Offline
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Polson, MT
Wheel bearings originally sat ON TOP of the 1/8" thick drum brake backing plate. If the wheel bearing bolts directly against the housing end, the axles will insert farther inside the differential and preload the thrust block. This will destroy Green wheel bearings in no time.

Instructions for the Wilwood kit with the parking brake in the rotor hat are wrong.

You MUST:

1. Use the loose 5 hole retainer that comes in the MO-400 (snap ring type) Green bearing kit to take up the space originally occupied by the drum brake backing plate. Use this plate between the housing end and the Wilwood backing plate.

OR...

2. Remove the thrust block in the differential.

BTW, all my rear disc brake kits work with stock or Green wheel bearings, and none require this modification.

Re: Green Bearings [Re: go-fish] #134481
10/19/08 02:08 PM
10/19/08 02:08 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,568
Omaha, Nebraska
Scott Carl Offline OP
pro stock
Scott Carl  Offline OP
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Posts: 1,568
Omaha, Nebraska
Quote:

And this thread will still be going!




I got my questions answered, so carry on I'm still readin' anyway

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