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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: fbernard]
#134443
10/14/08 10:02 AM
10/14/08 10:02 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,016
Polson, MT
DoctorDiff
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,016
Polson, MT
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Fabien,
I'm guessing your friend has the Wilwood kit with parking brake shoes in the rotor hat. Did you install the snap ring directly against the housing end? Unfortunately, Wilwood's instructions don't mention you must use the 5 hole retainer that comes with the bearings as a shim to properly space the axles away from the differential internals. Otherwise, constant preloading will destroy the wheel bearings.
Last edited by DoctorDiff; 10/14/08 10:06 AM.
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: fbernard]
#134444
10/14/08 10:50 AM
10/14/08 10:50 AM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,568
Omaha, Nebraska
Scott Carl
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,568
Omaha, Nebraska
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Quote:
Quote:
I second the motion. I replaced to greens at least a decade ago. So far I have years of autocrossing, two track days as well as tens of thousands of miles of spirited driving - no failure yet.
A friend's car I installed a Wilwood disc brake kit on (which required snap-ring green bearings) is currently on its 4th set of bearings in under 2 years. The previous set (the 3rd) survived road use and drag racing easily. But rally and spirited driving killed it in ONE DAY.
My car did the same with tapered bearings (no rear discs), and they're still fine. They're at least 15 years old.
First a question and then a comment with more questions  Are Green bearings a "brand of bearing or a style that uses a typical sealed ball type bearing? Does Green manufature their own bearings or do they buy them from vendor and assemble the kits? I tried googling Green bearings and only came up with forums like this one or old history (1930s) about the original Green company. Who makes these bearings??? ok several questions... 
I ask these questions because I'm really torn here. I have seen testimony both ways. As people are using these ball bearing under condition that are considered by many to be adverse to their design, I have to wonder if there aren't other factors at play. What is making some Greens fail where others last "forever" under what guys are decribing as mild to severe abuse and or "spirited driving", and what would make a tapered bearing fail under conditions that they were made for? Poor fit up?, Is the supplier of the Greens the same each time? Maybe they have a defective batch. I'm hoping to change these bearings once. The stock ones lasted 102,000 in 34 years and failed only because they went swimming for three days and then sat to dry in time  I'm a 53 year old kid  I plan to do some spirited driving myself but I don't want the first thing my grandaughter has to do to is is changer axle bearings. Like I said, I'm still torn.
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#134448
10/14/08 03:17 PM
10/14/08 03:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,016
Polson, MT
DoctorDiff
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,016
Polson, MT
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Are Set 7 adjustable bearings an engineering masterpiece? No. Are Set 7 bearings suited for all applicatoins? No.
Are Green bearings an engineering masterpiece? No. Are Green bearings suited for all applications? No. I would love to see a tapered version of the MO-400 design Green wheel bearing.
Once again, here is what I originally posted in this thread: "Although most people won't have problems with the snap-ring style Green bearing (not the crimped on flange, RP-400 design still sold by Mopar Performance), the non-adjustable, 3.15" bore Timken set 20 tapered bearing is the strongest, commonly available wheel bearing. Unfortunatley, special housing ends are required to run this bearing on a Mopar application."
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: DoctorDiff]
#134450
10/14/08 03:27 PM
10/14/08 03:27 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,814
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,814
Kirkland, Washington
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From Mopar Action:
Found by a yahoo search of 'Mopar green axle bearings'.
right or wrong
"Ray, the Greens are low-capacity ball bearings...maybe 1/10 the side-load capacity of the stock Timkens. They are fine for drag racing, pretty lousy on the street, and pretty scary if you're into cornering or towing! (Admittedly, I've never personally seen one catastrophically fail, but I've seen plenty get noisy and sloppy).
The Fords are sealed rollers, way better than balls. The reason why you don't see more of 'em is 'cause they require you to weld on custom axle housing "ends". I have featured these earlier in the mag, as a way to dump the C-clips on 8.25 and 9.25" axles.
I also must add that, except that they require more care during assembly (packing with lube, endplay adjustment, etc.) the stock Timken tapered roller setup is about as good as it gets.
Rick"
OBVIOUSLY many people disagree
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: Pacnorthcuda]
#134451
10/14/08 04:54 PM
10/14/08 04:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,734
Charlotte, NC
446acuda
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,734
Charlotte, NC
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Quote:
From Mopar Action:
Found by a yahoo search of 'Mopar green axle bearings'.
right or wrong
"The Fords are sealed rollers, way better than balls. Rick"
OBVIOUSLY many people disagree
WRONG! Fords are sealed ball bearings. Here is an OE Ford 3.15" sealed bearing with the shield removed. Obviously a ball bearing.
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: DoctorDiff]
#134452
10/14/08 08:39 PM
10/14/08 08:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,043
Slidell, La.
doctor_mopar
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,043
Slidell, La.
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Just had a shop manager bring an axle by to match up for a replacement I had. A local machine shop had pressed the tapered bearing on backwards, and the shop had intalled it that way !
------------------------ It doesn't matter what you do.........As long as you look good doing it !
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: doctor_mopar]
#134453
10/14/08 08:51 PM
10/14/08 08:51 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
dOc !
The village idiot's idiot
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The village idiot's idiot
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
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Will the mean-greenie  ever die ? ... NO way.  But I have been doing this stuff for longer than most here have been alive. And I have never seen a bad set of Timkens .... ever !!! And I have seen some that probably should have been changed ... but I cleaned-em-up and GREASED-em-up(well) and went on my way. The greenies ? ... if you eyeball them the wrong-way -- they  . Now I am not saying the Timkens do not fail .... but in no way in the same #'s as the balls.
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: doctor_mopar]
#134454
10/14/08 09:03 PM
10/14/08 09:03 PM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,195
Snowing in the north!
Dart 340
moparts member
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moparts member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,195
Snowing in the north!
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Quote:
Just had a shop manager bring an axle by to match up for a replacement I had. A local machine shop had pressed the tapered bearing on backwards, and the shop had intalled it that way !
I think many people do that! They install it like a
front wheel bearing.
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: 446acuda]
#134455
10/14/08 09:05 PM
10/14/08 09:05 PM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,195
Snowing in the north!
Dart 340
moparts member
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moparts member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,195
Snowing in the north!
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Quote:
Quote:
From Mopar Action:
Found by a yahoo search of 'Mopar green axle bearings'.
right or wrong
"The Fords are sealed rollers, way better than balls. Rick"
OBVIOUSLY many people disagree
WRONG! Fords are sealed ball bearings. Here is an OE Ford 3.15" sealed bearing with the shield removed. Obviously a ball bearing.
At least that one has a steel ball carrier, the greens I had used a plastic carrier.....
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: Dart 340]
#134456
10/14/08 09:14 PM
10/14/08 09:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
MoparforLife
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
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Quote:
Quote:
Just had a shop manager bring an axle by to match up for a replacement I had. A local machine shop had pressed the tapered bearing on backwards, and the shop had intalled it that way !
I think many people do that! They install it like a
front wheel bearing.
Like I said above the biggest failure rate is due to installation error, not bearing quality. It doesn't take any thought to install green bearings. 
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: DoctorDiff]
#134460
10/15/08 01:12 PM
10/15/08 01:12 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 403
30 miles west of EuroDisney
fbernard
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 403
30 miles west of EuroDisney
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Quote:
Fabien,
If the snap ring seats against the housing end, each axle will insert 1/8" deeper than they are intended. The thrust block inside the carrier will preload and destroy the wheel bearings.
Cass,
I agree it could have been the case with the previous center section (we did install the brakes before changing the diff).
But with the new one we bought from you (3.55 gears/489 housing/1350 yoke/Truetrac diff), we left out the thrust block. Axles should be spaced apart.
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Re: Green Bearings
[Re: fig426]
#134461
10/17/08 12:57 PM
10/17/08 12:57 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
Fury Fan
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
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This topic is a good example of one of my favorite phrases: 'Just because someone knows how to work on things doesn't mean they know how things work.' There are good points (and bad points) brought up by both sides here. About a year ago I found a copy of this article, today I was able to find it on the web. I encourage everyone with an interest in this topic to read this article and learn a little about bearings. It clearly explains the advantage the tapered bearing has over a roller bearing in a wheel bearing application. The factory application/designs have a Factor Of Safety associated with them, and it's evidently high enough that a lower-capacity roller bearing can be installed in its place without a tremendous amount of failures. The roller bearing is clearly inferior to the tapered roller from a load-bearing perspective, however there are other factors in a rear axle application that are the reason this topic brings passionate feelings from both sides. We should focus on simple things like engine oil or filters instead. As for me, I'll stick with my Timken rollers, clean/re-grease them periodically, and worry about my other worries instead... http://www.schaeffler.com/remotemedien/m...here_roller.pdf
Parts I seek:
driver doorpanel, 65 Sport Fury, prefer black, needs to be 7-8 on 10 scale, might buy set
16" x 6" Dodge truck wheel(s), from early 70s?, takes 9" dogdish - need for a research job so cheaper is better.
69-73 C-body caliper brackets and/or splashields
Send a PM.
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you're right, we never used this retainer (thanks Wilwood). We'll try and see what happens.
