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Re: BES Apache flows! [Re: Guitar Jones] #1335493
11/20/12 05:03 PM 11/20/12 05:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger Offline OP
master
72Swinger  Offline OP
master

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
Thats bull about torque. The 6.4 was engineered to produced more torque down low because although its first iteration made like 500hp it didnt feel much stronger than the 6.1. Thats when the variable length runner intake came into play. SO now the 6.4 "feels" stronger in the 4300lb land barges they put them in. Yeah im pretty sure torque was at the top of the list with 6.4, even though the ports dont support that.

Mopar to the bone!!!
Re: BES Apache flows! [Re: 72Swinger] #1335494
11/20/12 05:12 PM 11/20/12 05:12 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,645
Houston, Tx
A
AlexP Offline
I Live Here
AlexP  Offline
I Live Here
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,645
Houston, Tx
Veriable runner intakes are partially spec'd for the reason above, but it also has to do with cold start issues.

If you've ever had a car with a variable runner intake fail, the car will misfire like crazy.

The drivetrain of these cars is suited perfectly for right about 500hp. After than, it all starts going very quickly. They knew the potential of these combination and I strongly feel that the "weak" drivetrain is more of a fuse. It prevents people from bolting on Forced induction or something similar and making a ton of power without a serious commitment to the rest of the car.

My Build thread: Let the hemi swap begin!

1968 wanna be pro touring whatchamacallit with some fancy stuff and a new roof skin.
Re: BES Apache flows! [Re: AlexP] #1335495
11/20/12 08:26 PM 11/20/12 08:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,719
Home
S
SRT6776 Offline
I hate internal combustion engines!
SRT6776  Offline
I hate internal combustion engines!
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,719
Home
Any ideas on ET or 0-60 improvements with the 8-speed going in next year?
Re: BES Apache flows! [Re: SRT6776] #1335496
11/20/12 09:44 PM 11/20/12 09:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,255
Canada
WO23Coronet Offline
master
WO23Coronet  Offline
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Posts: 4,255
Canada
Didn't the 8 spd drop the V6 cars 0-60 times by a second? Now I expect the V8 cars won't benefit that much cause the 8 spd is perfect for a low torque peaky (compared to a V8)V6, but I imagine it'll be significant.
Re: BES Apache flows! [Re: AlexP] #1335497
11/20/12 10:19 PM 11/20/12 10:19 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 226
lino lakes,MN
onebaddakota Offline
enthusiast
onebaddakota  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 226
lino lakes,MN




I don't agree with the overall results. IMHO a Apache, ported or not is better suited to a 440 and above.

I've dealt with a racer in direct compeition to Alcharger. He ran less cylinder head (eagle) and was still faster over all and also less CI.

An effcient head is what we build for. Different styles work for different aplications.


A lot of what you're saying makes sense, Alex. You've probably forgotten more than I know about the these new hemis. But I still can't get around this: why would Chrysler spend so much money in R&D to design a new head for the 392 if the older 5.7,6.1 or eagle would have made more power? If it's a low end tq issue, that could have easily been reduced electronically. I can't help but think the engineers wouldn't have done it if the port velocity was that bad. They still did despite the low compression,small cammed,low stalled, and heavy application.
I believe that was infernalAl who did the head swap on his stroker; eagle to apache who picked something like 40 HP to the tires.

10.56 at 125.6, with a 1.43 60 ft. E85, Hyd. Roller 410 magnum,full exhaust, 3500 race weight.
Re: BES Apache flows! [Re: onebaddakota] #1335498
11/20/12 10:23 PM 11/20/12 10:23 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger Offline OP
master
72Swinger  Offline OP
master

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
Someone really needs to build a 434 or bigger out of a 6.4 and see just what its capable of. If anyone has about 10K burning a hole in their pocket I will take one for the team and graciously volunteer....

Last edited by 72Swinger; 11/20/12 10:24 PM.
Mopar to the bone!!!
Re: BES Apache flows! [Re: 72Swinger] #1335499
11/20/12 11:47 PM 11/20/12 11:47 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,826
NY usa
5
540challenger Offline
master
540challenger  Offline
master
5

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,826
NY usa
Quote:

Someone really needs to build a 434 or bigger out of a 6.4 and see just what its capable of. If anyone has about 10K burning a hole in their pocket I will take one for the team and graciously volunteer....

Well i got the apache heads sitting here besides my big bore alum block but i won't have the funds ready until around this time next year to get the build going

Re: BES Apache flows! [Re: 540challenger] #1335500
12/31/13 04:01 PM 12/31/13 04:01 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger Offline OP
master
72Swinger  Offline OP
master

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
Well 540
It's officially this time next year lol.

Mopar to the bone!!!
Re: BES Apache flows! [Re: 340RICK] #1335501
12/31/13 04:53 PM 12/31/13 04:53 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,505
TN
S
SCATPACK 1 Offline
pro stock
SCATPACK 1  Offline
pro stock
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,505
TN
Quote:

Need to get Brett Miller to start working on some 3G stuff instead of that old dinosaur W stuff



So Rick
What did you do for the front of your engine? Did you use a factory timing cover and water pump or did you have to make one from scratch.
What does your car weigh? You run some really good times with yours and it has always impressed me. BUT I and most others that would like one of the new Gen III Hemi's do not have a clue how to get around all of the computer issues and the front timing cover issues.

Old Geezer Racing
Re: BES Apache flows! [Re: SCATPACK 1] #1335502
12/31/13 06:29 PM 12/31/13 06:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
M
MattW Offline
master
MattW  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
Just went through this entire thread. Man things have changed!
6.1 is dead. No more blocks
If your looking to go big cid aluminum or 6.4. STEFF is the only one I know that has used a 6.4.
The 6.2 Hell Cat is rumored to be coming out in alumunum. WHYYYYYYYYYYYYY
The 6.4 has a bore of 4.09 some its got something. Plus I THINK they used the 6.4 block with a 6.1 crank to test the supercharged challenger. If a production block survives a 700 hp trashing then I won't need anything stronger. Matt

Forgot the 2014 2500 and 3500 come with the 6.4. Same block and crank.
So with the selling of trucks maybe the block will be more abundant.

Last edited by MattW; 12/31/13 06:51 PM.
Re: BES Apache flows! [Re: MattW] #1335503
12/31/13 07:12 PM 12/31/13 07:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,255
Canada
WO23Coronet Offline
master
WO23Coronet  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,255
Canada
What heads do the 6.4 truck engines come with? Eagle heads (smaller port better torque) or do they still have the Apache's? Or an all new casting?
Re: BES Apache flows! [Re: WO23Coronet] #1335504
12/31/13 07:22 PM 12/31/13 07:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
M
MattW Offline
master
MattW  Offline
master
M

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
Quote:

What heads do the 6.4 truck engines come with? Eagle heads (smaller port better torque) or do they still have the Apache's? Or an all new casting?



I'm thinking the same thing the 5.7 casting. IMO Apache is too big too expensive. But you know how they are!

Re: BES Apache flows! [Re: MattW] #1335505
12/31/13 09:18 PM 12/31/13 09:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger Offline OP
master
72Swinger  Offline OP
master

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
Heres where I am, a year later. This is a 6.1 soon to be 420".

Mopar to the bone!!!
Re: BES Apache flows! [Re: SCATPACK 1] #1335506
12/31/13 09:56 PM 12/31/13 09:56 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,049
ohio
A
all spooled up Offline
super stock
all spooled up  Offline
super stock
A

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,049
ohio
Quote:

Quote:

Need to get Brett Miller to start working on some 3G stuff instead of that old dinosaur W stuff



So Rick
What did you do for the front of your engine? Did you use a factory timing cover and water pump or did you have to make one from scratch.
What does your car weigh? You run some really good times with yours and it has always impressed me. BUT I and most others that would like one of the new Gen III Hemi's do not have a clue how to get around all of the computer issues and the front timing cover issues.

RICK has a custom motor plate, stock factory timing cover, bb chevy eltric water pump, and a alt hung on the motor plate................. and I think it weighs 3200 pounds with him in it

Last edited by all spooled up; 12/31/13 09:58 PM.
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