|
Re: BES Apache flows!
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#1335434
11/15/12 09:05 PM
11/15/12 09:05 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
Leon441
master
|
master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
|
There is no doubt with those numbers, 390 CFM at .600 lift, that you could not make a very streetable combo run low 9's at 408 CID
Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
|
|
|
Re: BES Apache flows!
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#1335436
11/15/12 10:31 PM
11/15/12 10:31 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,719
Home
SRT6776
I hate internal combustion engines!
|
I hate internal combustion engines!
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,719
Home
|
Quote:
Quote:
There is no doubt with those numbers, 390 CFM at .600 lift, that you could not make a very streetable combo run low 9's at 408 CID
I am just questioning durability of said engine when it is raced weekly. Not 3-4 HEMI or Mopar shows a year. Can the last for 3 or 4 years like the "old school" stuff can without blowing the bottom out of them. 
They have another beefier engine on the way as well, 6.2L Supercharged Hemi (called HellCat)..that'll be the block you'll want, although the 6.4L Apache block hasn't exactly been tested yet, so it shouldn't be written off.
|
|
|
Re: BES Apache flows!
[Re: 72Swinger]
#1335439
11/16/12 12:26 AM
11/16/12 12:26 AM
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,719
Home
SRT6776
I hate internal combustion engines!
|
I hate internal combustion engines!
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 9,719
Home
|
Quote:
Quote:
there is a bunch of LS heads that claim to go over 400 so I'm not really to impressed by a piece of paper that says a hemi head flowing worse than a LS
head
With factory castings?
LPE CNC L92 LS3 Flow Specs
Intake valve lift / Exhaust valve lift
.200 - 158 cfm / .200 - 116 cfm
.300 - 230 cfm / .300 - 161 cfm
.400 - 282 cfm / .400 - 201 cfm
.450 - 302 cfm / .450 - 213 cfm
.500 - 322 cfm / .500 - 220 cfm
.550 - 340 cfm / .550 - 226 cfm
.600 - 350 cfm / .600 - 231 cfm
.650 - 358 cfm / .650 - 234 cfm
.700 - 344 cfm / .700 - 237 cfm
IIRC the Apache and LSA numbers are the same or very close.
|
|
|
Re: BES Apache flows!
[Re: 72Swinger]
#1335440
11/16/12 12:27 AM
11/16/12 12:27 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 941
Texas, USA
ChrgrCuda
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 941
Texas, USA
|
I'm also super impressed with the flow values and potential of the Gen3 Hemi. I think this will be the next big step for Mopar. Just because you can go to Walmart and by some cheap Chinese valve covers doesn't impress me performance wise, i.e. Brand X.... 
68 Cuda Notchback [Email]10.86@120[/Email]
69 Charger R/T 440/505
2009 Challenger SRT8
|
|
|
Re: BES Apache flows!
[Re: 72Swinger]
#1335441
11/16/12 12:29 AM
11/16/12 12:29 AM
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
|
Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
|
Quote:
Quote:
there is a bunch of LS heads that claim to go over 400 so I'm not really to impressed by a piece of paper that says a hemi head flowing worse than a LS
head
With factory castings?
LPE CNC L92 LS3 Flow Specs
Intake valve lift / Exhaust valve lift
.200 - 158 cfm / .200 - 116 cfm
.300 - 230 cfm / .300 - 161 cfm
.400 - 282 cfm / .400 - 201 cfm
.450 - 302 cfm / .450 - 213 cfm
.500 - 322 cfm / .500 - 220 cfm
.550 - 340 cfm / .550 - 226 cfm
.600 - 350 cfm / .600 - 231 cfm
.650 - 358 cfm / .650 - 234 cfm
.700 - 344 cfm / .700 - 237 cfm
no, but what does that matter? they are available.
oh, we should be happy mopar made a head with huge ports but blow up over 7000rpm?
more insulting is the fact that a guy takes a junkyard 5.3, throws a turbo on it and makes 900-1100hp with junkyard motor. can't do that with a hemi
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
|
|
|
Re: BES Apache flows!
[Re: 72Swinger]
#1335443
11/16/12 12:38 AM
11/16/12 12:38 AM
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,130
Dayton, Ohio
wldtm
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,130
Dayton, Ohio
|
Why can't one thread be posted without having more than three replies and it turning into a pissing match. Nothing ever really good comes from it or gets resolved.
I thinks it's great. BES is pretty good at what they do, and winning the engine masters with a gen three hemi shows they know what it takes to make power.
I think the ls is a great engine but mopar people should be excited that we have some new technology that shows promise.
The apache head has been approved for stock and super stock as well.
Justin
Interested in having you car wired? Drag car, street car, EFI swap?
PM for details
|
|
|
Re: BES Apache flows!
[Re: gregsdart]
#1335445
11/16/12 09:14 AM
11/16/12 09:14 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Heads are cheap
http://www.mopar.com/part/RL086555AA?s=335847&i=1979575&b=dodge
Short block
http://www.mopar.com/part/RL086564AB?s=335847&i=1979588&b=dodge
I dont know why anyone would even bother with an LA based SB or even a big block when these will put down numbers like that.
Maybe because some conventional LA based small blocks can make 1000+ N/A with a cast intake and sinlge 4.
.....and some conventional big block heads go to 1250+, N/A.
Those are some nice heads BES does, but lets elevate them to "top-o-the-heap" status. They obviously make a real nice street and mid level race deal.
Very true, but $ for $, I would think those heads and a good race shortblock would come in cheaper than either.
yeah, you're comparing some ported, but pretty much off the shelf production heads that are $1100/pr according to the above link to some max effort W7/8/9 heads, or some max effort indy 572's or B1-MC's, etc...
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
|
|
|
Re: BES Apache flows!
[Re: patrick]
#1335446
11/16/12 09:33 AM
11/16/12 09:33 AM
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
|
Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
|
72SWINGER, what block would you bolt these heads to?
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
Follow @g3hemiswap on instagram
performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
|
|
|
Re: BES Apache flows!
[Re: sixpackgut]
#1335447
11/16/12 09:48 AM
11/16/12 09:48 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
OP
master
|
OP
master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
|
Probably the one they were bolted to if I ever score a 392 out of a junkyard. There are plenty of things that disappoint me about Mopar halfassing certain things on their current engineering. Like the crank issue? That definitely blows, but who wouldn't build a stroker anyway? Why can't they build aluminum block Gen III hemis and put them in SRT cars from the factory? But Chevy does. Why did Chrysler cast crossbolted Hemi blocks all those years but couldn't cast crossbolted 440 blocks? Yeah us grassroots guys have been getting screwed since 1964!
Mopar to the bone!!!
|
|
|
Re: BES Apache flows!
[Re: AlexP]
#1335448
11/16/12 10:02 AM
11/16/12 10:02 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,784
PA
W5DART66
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,784
PA
|
Quote:
They're at about 350 @ .550 OOTB.
Good numbers. The trick is to get within 10cfm peak but annihilate it from .0 to .300 lift. Get the air moving quicker earlier.
Big peaks don't impress me on flow sheets or dynos.
There are very few modern hemi shortblocks which can even imagine using that much air effectively.
Why do you think good flow from .000 to .300 lift is good?
|
|
|
Re: BES Apache flows!
[Re: 72Swinger]
#1335449
11/16/12 11:56 AM
11/16/12 11:56 AM
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,826
NY usa
540challenger
master
|
master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,826
NY usa
|
Quote:
Probably the one they were bolted to if I ever score a 392 out of a junkyard. There are plenty of things that disappoint me about Mopar halfassing certain things on their current engineering. Like the crank issue? That definitely blows, but who wouldn't build a stroker anyway? Why can't they build aluminum block Gen III hemis and put them in SRT cars from the factory? But Chevy does. Why did Chrysler cast crossbolted Hemi blocks all those years but couldn't cast crossbolted 440 blocks? Yeah us grassroots guys have been getting screwed since 1964!
Just to touch up on some stuff.
There is a lot of guys starting to run 6.4 apache heads on 5.7 blocks I am not 100% but i think once you bore the 5.7 block you don't need to notch the cylinders.
On the Factory Alum block issue i would love a factory alum block "cheaper"
However even the Gm guys don't like running the factory alum LS block around 550-600hp mark they switch to the iron block becused it is stronger.
Last thing you got a 392 out a junkyard iam jealous
Keep posting you build please i love more info when you can
|
|
|
Re: BES Apache flows!
[Re: SRT6776]
#1335451
11/16/12 12:40 PM
11/16/12 12:40 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
MattW
master
|
master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
There is no doubt with those numbers, 390 CFM at .600 lift, that you could not make a very streetable combo run low 9's at 408 CID
I am just questioning durability of said engine when it is raced weekly. Not 3-4 HEMI or Mopar shows a year. Can the last for 3 or 4 years like the "old school" stuff can without blowing the bottom out of them.
They have another beefier engine on the way as well, 6.2L Supercharged Hemi (called HellCat)..that'll be the block you'll want, although the 6.4L Apache block hasn't exactly been tested yet, so it shouldn't be written off.
I'm hoping that the 6.2 IS a stronger version of the 6.4 which is a stronger version of the 6.1.
It would be nice to have a block you can overbore for the same price as the 6.1.
|
|
|
|
|
