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Re: BES Apache flows! [Re: W5DART66] #1335453
11/16/12 03:39 PM
11/16/12 03:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,488
SoCal
Brian Hafliger Offline
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Brian Hafliger  Offline
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SoCal
Quote:

Quote:

They're at about 350 @ .550 OOTB.

Good numbers. The trick is to get within 10cfm peak but annihilate it from .0 to .300 lift. Get the air moving quicker earlier.

Big peaks don't impress me on flow sheets or dynos.

There are very few modern hemi shortblocks which can even imagine using that much air effectively.





Why do you think good flow from .000 to .300 lift is good?




I was wondering the same thing! Especially on a Hemi!!!!


Brian Hafliger
Re: BES Apache flows! [Re: 72Swinger] #1335454
11/16/12 10:46 PM
11/16/12 10:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger Offline OP
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72Swinger  Offline OP
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Nebraska
I think I'm gonna start my 434 savings plan...... http://www.campbellenterprises.com/5.7-6...oker-cranks.php


Mopar to the bone!!!
Re: BES Apache flows! [Re: 540challenger] #1335455
11/17/12 11:54 AM
11/17/12 11:54 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
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MattW Offline
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Ontario Canada

Just to touch up on some stuff.

There is a lot of guys starting to run 6.4 apache heads on 5.7 blocks I am not 100% but i think once you bore the 5.7 block you don't need to notch the cylinders.

On the Factory Alum block issue i would love a factory alum block "cheaper"

However even the Gm guys don't like running the factory alum LS block around 550-600hp mark they switch to the iron block becused it is stronger.

Last thing you got a 392 out a junkyard iam jealous

Keep posting you build please i love more info when you can




Couple of other things.
The G3 is basicaly an LS engine. The difference is in the heads. Sonny the fella that does all the billet hemi head engines said that the HEMI head design is worth 10% over the same engine with inline valve arrangement.
He also stated that in boost aplications it is even higher I THINK 25% over inline valve arrangement.
Were the LS crowd dominates is the factory and aftermarket support. We can't even touch it. Matt

Re: BES Apache flows! [Re: MattW] #1335456
11/17/12 03:24 PM
11/17/12 03:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 3,109
old westchester
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mcat4321 Offline
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old westchester
i am friends with all the BES crew,i am pretty sure i can get a group buy discount on the BES heads.. if anyone is interested...

Re: BES Apache flows! [Re: mcat4321] #1335457
11/17/12 04:39 PM
11/17/12 04:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,657
Fitchburg,Massachusetts
MPerry Offline
Mopahts memba'
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Fitchburg,Massachusetts

I think its great that more Mopar products are popping up all the time.

Re: BES Apache flows! [Re: MPerry] #1335458
11/17/12 07:45 PM
11/17/12 07:45 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 207
warren, mich.
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dwayne welder Offline
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warren, mich.
Sorry to imform you, 540 Challenger!!! Mark Steilow's new 1967 Camaro with a LS-7, superchardge, make's 900HP, and 840torque. It will due that all day long!!!! Wonder how i know that!!!!! 11psi boost on pump gas 94 octane!!!

Re: BES Apache flows! [Re: dwayne welder] #1335459
11/17/12 08:37 PM
11/17/12 08:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger Offline OP
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72Swinger  Offline OP
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Quote:

Sorry to imform you, 540 Challenger!!! Mark Steilow's new 1967 Camaro with a LS-7, superchardge, make's 900HP, and 840torque. It will due that all day long!!!! Wonder how i know that!!!!! 11psi boost on pump gas 94 octane!!!


First off Steilows car is a 69. I've heard lots of different #s on that car and none of them were 900 maybe 750 but that could be at the wheels. His engine is as he claims an ls7 with a lsa blower setup. Also he is a GM engineer and basically Chevys Tom Hoover. That yellow zl1 Camaro that lingenfelter breathed on for Hot Rod mag to hit 200 was here last August and windowed its GM block after his 2nd 1 mile run for all to see. That according to HR had like 590 at the tire and it went poof.


Mopar to the bone!!!
Re: BES Apache flows! [Re: 72Swinger] #1335460
11/17/12 09:09 PM
11/17/12 09:09 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 207
warren, mich.
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dwayne welder Offline
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warren, mich.
Well sorry to inform you, but his new car was at las vagas in the optima battery event and won!!!! It's a 1967 silver!!!!!! Ask me how i know!!!!!!!!!

Re: BES Apache flows! [Re: dwayne welder] #1335461
11/17/12 09:59 PM
11/17/12 09:59 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 11,704
W. Kentucky
justinp61 Offline
I Live Here
justinp61  Offline
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W. Kentucky
Quote:

It's a 1967 silver!!!!!! Ask me how i know!!!!!!!!!




Ok, how do you know?

Re: BES Apache flows! [Re: dwayne welder] #1335462
11/17/12 10:59 PM
11/17/12 10:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,280
Canada
WO23Coronet Offline
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Canada
PLEASE TELL!!!!!!!!!!!!HOW DO YOU KNOW!!!!!!!!!AND HURRY MY FINGERS ARE SORE FROM SHOUTING AND USING EXCLAMATIONS!!!!!!!
BTW I don't think 540Challenger was saying you can't go over 600 HP with an aluminum block, it's that the LS guys prefer to use an iron block when the HP gets high cause the bores don't balloon as much and lose ring seal, I've read that in a couple of places

Re: BES Apache flows! [Re: WO23Coronet] #1335463
11/17/12 11:47 PM
11/17/12 11:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger Offline OP
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72Swinger  Offline OP
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And if a GM engineer can do it, anybody can too right?


Mopar to the bone!!!
Re: BES Apache flows! [Re: WO23Coronet] #1335464
11/17/12 11:48 PM
11/17/12 11:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,826
NY usa
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540challenger Offline
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NY usa
Quote:

PLEASE TELL!!!!!!!!!!!!HOW DO YOU KNOW!!!!!!!!!AND HURRY MY FINGERS ARE SORE FROM SHOUTING AND USING EXCLAMATIONS!!!!!!!
BTW I don't think 540Challenger was saying you can't go over 600 HP with an aluminum block, it's that the LS guys prefer to use an iron block when the HP gets high cause the bores don't balloon as much and lose ring seal, I've read that in a couple of places


Correct However the LS7 is a different animal then the much more common LS1,LS2 and LS3, engines it's sleeves are extra thick to run boost or higher HP levels OF courese dwayne welder!!!!! knows this already must GM boys don't run the LS7 They run the more common LS series engines. But there is a reason GM came out with the LSX block. Which is something we lack a cheap aftermarket/factory block on the LSX Level.

Re: BES Apache flows! [Re: 540challenger] #1335465
11/18/12 12:03 AM
11/18/12 12:03 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 207
warren, mich.
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dwayne welder Offline
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warren, mich.
I work at the shop that built his current motor!!!! Well also built his last 4 or 5 motors to!!!!! Thats how i know!!!! Yes the LS-7 block is the way to go, but combo has to be tuned good!!! Marks good friend, and coworker Dave M., tunes the motors!!! The max bore size on the LS-7 Block, is only +.010 overbore! It has a pressed in sleeve. Bore std., is 4.125! WE have slightly stroked them to 4.125, witch makes them a 439 cid!! We currently have a 740hp,n/a combo, pump gas, streetably!!!!

Re: BES Apache flows! [Re: dwayne welder] #1335466
11/18/12 12:11 AM
11/18/12 12:11 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger Offline OP
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72Swinger  Offline OP
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Nebraska
Quote:

I work at the shop that built his current motor!!!! Well also built his last 4 or 5 motors to!!!!! Thats how i know!!!! Yes the LS-7 block is the way to go, but combo has to be tuned good!!! Marks good friend, and coworker Dave M., tunes the motors!!! The max bore size on the LS-7 Block, is only +.010 overbore! It has a pressed in sleeve. Bore std., is 4.125! WE have slightly stroked them to 4.125, witch makes them a 439 cid!! We currently have a 740hp,n/a combo, pump gas, streetably!!!!


Start building some Hemis then...


Mopar to the bone!!!
Re: BES Apache flows! [Re: 72Swinger] #1335467
11/18/12 12:16 AM
11/18/12 12:16 AM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 207
warren, mich.
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dwayne welder Offline
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warren, mich.
That would be nice to due!!!! But not in our shop!!!!! Long story!!! But could be done in my garage!!!!

Re: BES Apache flows! [Re: 540challenger] #1335468
11/18/12 06:23 AM
11/18/12 06:23 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 506
Texas Afghanistan Iraq etc.
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DakFink Offline
mopar
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Quote:

Quote:

PLEASE TELL!!!!!!!!!!!!HOW DO YOU KNOW!!!!!!!!!AND HURRY MY FINGERS ARE SORE FROM SHOUTING AND USING EXCLAMATIONS!!!!!!!
BTW I don't think 540Challenger was saying you can't go over 600 HP with an aluminum block, it's that the LS guys prefer to use an iron block when the HP gets high cause the bores don't balloon as much and lose ring seal, I've read that in a couple of places


Correct However the LS7 is a different animal then the much more common LS1,LS2 and LS3, engines it's sleeves are extra thick to run boost or higher HP levels OF courese dwayne welder!!!!! knows this already must GM boys don't run the LS7 They run the more common LS series engines. But there is a reason GM came out with the LSX block. Which is something we lack a cheap aftermarket/factory block on the LSX Level.




Really? Last I checked (last week) an R3 P4876673AD could be had new for $2300. Max Bore 4.220-4.250 and 4.250 stroke.

LSx block is $2500.


Only heads that LS has that can keep up with (actually pass) a good set of W9's or W9-RP is the Mozez heads at $2500/ea Bare. I paid that much for my RP's fully set-up, and $900/pr for my Bare W9's from Mopar.

Not exactly cheaper from my calculations.

Re: BES Apache flows! [Re: DakFink] #1335469
11/18/12 10:23 AM
11/18/12 10:23 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,826
NY usa
5
540challenger Offline
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540challenger  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,826
NY usa
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

PLEASE TELL!!!!!!!!!!!!HOW DO YOU KNOW!!!!!!!!!AND HURRY MY FINGERS ARE SORE FROM SHOUTING AND USING EXCLAMATIONS!!!!!!!
BTW I don't think 540Challenger was saying you can't go over 600 HP with an aluminum block, it's that the LS guys prefer to use an iron block when the HP gets high cause the bores don't balloon as much and lose ring seal, I've read that in a couple of places


Correct However the LS7 is a different animal then the much more common LS1,LS2 and LS3, engines it's sleeves are extra thick to run boost or higher HP levels OF courese dwayne welder!!!!! knows this already must GM boys don't run the LS7 They run the more common LS series engines. But there is a reason GM came out with the LSX block. Which is something we lack a cheap aftermarket/factory block on the LSX Level.




Really? Last I checked (last week) an R3 P4876673AD could be had new for $2300. Max Bore 4.220-4.250 and 4.250 stroke.

LSx block is $2500.


Only heads that LS has that can keep up with (actually pass) a good set of W9's or W9-RP is the Mozez heads at $2500/ea Bare. I paid that much for my RP's fully set-up, and $900/pr for my Bare W9's from Mopar.

Not exactly cheaper from my calculations.




The W9 head in the long run will cost way more then a LS head once you factory in all the exotic hardware to follow.

I was talking of the LSX block comapres to the new hemi

2500 is a lot cheaper then a 4000 Alum gen3 block

Re: BES Apache flows! [Re: 540challenger] #1335470
11/18/12 10:29 AM
11/18/12 10:29 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,890
Smyrna, South Carolina
STEFF Offline
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STEFF  Offline
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Posts: 3,890
Smyrna, South Carolina
Hi Dwayne!!

Re: BES Apache flows! [Re: 540challenger] #1335471
11/18/12 10:58 AM
11/18/12 10:58 AM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
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MattW Offline
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MattW  Offline
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Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

PLEASE TELL!!!!!!!!!!!!HOW DO YOU KNOW!!!!!!!!!AND HURRY MY FINGERS ARE SORE FROM SHOUTING AND USING EXCLAMATIONS!!!!!!!
BTW I don't think 540Challenger was saying you can't go over 600 HP with an aluminum block, it's that the LS guys prefer to use an iron block when the HP gets high cause the bores don't balloon as much and lose ring seal, I've read that in a couple of places


Correct However the LS7 is a different animal then the much more common LS1,LS2 and LS3, engines it's sleeves are extra thick to run boost or higher HP levels OF courese dwayne welder!!!!! knows this already must GM boys don't run the LS7 They run the more common LS series engines. But there is a reason GM came out with the LSX block. Which is something we lack a cheap aftermarket/factory block on the LSX Level.




Really? Last I checked (last week) an R3 P4876673AD could be had new for $2300. Max Bore 4.220-4.250 and 4.250 stroke.

LSx block is $2500.


Only heads that LS has that can keep up with (actually pass) a good set of W9's or W9-RP is the Mozez heads at $2500/ea Bare. I paid that much for my RP's fully set-up, and $900/pr for my Bare W9's from Mopar.

Not exactly cheaper from my calculations.




The W9 head in the long run will cost way more then a LS head once you factory in all the exotic hardware to follow.

I was talking of the LSX block comapres to the new hemi

2500 is a lot cheaper then a 4000 Alum gen3 block






Now imagine if Fiat comes out with a 6.2 that is as strong as a LSX.
Lets face it the 6.2 blown engine will be a limited production run.
So IMO kill two birds with one stone make more of thess blocks to offset the cost of the limited production run.
For let say around 2000 to 2300.
I would purchase one!

Re: BES Apache flows! [Re: MattW] #1335472
11/18/12 11:27 AM
11/18/12 11:27 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger Offline OP
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72Swinger  Offline OP
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Nebraska
Im betting with some billet main caps the 6.4 block would be plenty stout. I remember reading somewhere that it is its own casting and not a machined 6.1 block.


Mopar to the bone!!!
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