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4 speed trans help: Determining condition? w/pics #1324067 10/21/12 08:12 PM 10/21/12 08:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts
autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal	Just got my hands on a bare A-body 4 speed. It appears pretty good. Just wondering if someone can give there expert opinion on gear, syncro, and shift fork conditon. Also I'm trying to determin the trans ratio. The trans codes/dates: 4B2545 = 1974 Hamtramck PPA8334557 = A883 built on Friday, January 18, 1974 Please click attachment to see gears and syncro ring teeth shape 7430173-FF12ParstBoughtSm04.JPG (99 downloads) Last edited by autoxcuda; 10/21/12 10:58 PM.

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: autoxcuda] #1324068 10/21/12 08:16 PM 10/21/12 08:16 PM
Joined: Mar 2009 Posts: 239 Lawton, MI Headhunter22 enthusiast
Headhunter22 enthusiast Joined: Mar 2009 Posts: 239 Lawton, MI	For information on ratios, ..etc I would nose around Brewers website. He's a sponser here and also has some really good information on his website. For ratios, I think this would answer your questions hopefully. On the parts, I'm sure others with more experience will chime in. Good luck. web page Steve

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: Headhunter22] #1324069 10/21/12 08:31 PM 10/21/12 08:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts
autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal	Quote: For information on ratios, ..etc I would nose around Brewers website. He's a sponser here and also has some really good information on his website. For ratios, I think this would answer your questions hopefully. On the parts, I'm sure others with more experience will chime in. Good luck. web page Steve Looked around that site and Passon all last night and today. But didn't think of getting info from the ordering page. My Main Shaft gears have three cuts/indents on edge of the teeth. And the cluster gear has three cuts in it. Just like this one they list as a 2.47 gear set. So does this mean I have a 2.47 gear set. They match these pictures on the Brewers site: Last edited by autoxcuda; 10/22/12 01:14 AM.

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: autoxcuda] #1324070 10/21/12 08:48 PM 10/21/12 08:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts
autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal	What condition are these gears and synro rings? Please click attachment to see picture magnified: 7430235-CopyofIMG_7789.JPG (61 downloads) Last edited by autoxcuda; 10/21/12 08:54 PM.

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: autoxcuda] #1324071 10/21/12 08:59 PM 10/21/12 08:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 10,552 Rittman Ohio fourgearsavoy I Live Here
fourgearsavoy I Live Here Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 10,552 Rittman Ohio	The clutching teeth on second and third look pretty beat-up to me.All you really need to do is count the drive teeth on the cluster and post what you can count.If you let us know the tooth counts we can tell you what ratio you have. Gus 7430249-savoyburnout.jpg (81 downloads) 64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: fourgearsavoy] #1324072 10/21/12 09:17 PM 10/21/12 09:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts
autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal	Quote: The clutching teeth on second and third look pretty beat-up to me.All you really need to do is count the drive teeth on the cluster and post what you can count.If you let us know the tooth counts we can tell you what ratio you have. Gus Will do . . . With illustration Tooth counts: 7430282-FF12ParstBoughtSm03GearTeethCounts.JPG (60 downloads)

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: fourgearsavoy] #1324073 10/21/12 09:35 PM 10/21/12 09:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 931 D dulcich super stock
dulcich super stock D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 931	Quote: The clutching teeth on second and third look pretty beat-up to me.All you really need to do is count the drive teeth on the cluster and post what you can count.If you let us know the tooth counts we can tell you what ratio you have. Gus It looks to be in good condition to me.

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: dulcich] #1324074 10/21/12 09:38 PM 10/21/12 09:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,976 Chilliwack B.C. Canada R RUNCHARGER I Live Here
RUNCHARGER I Live Here R Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,976 Chilliwack B.C. Canada	I have to agree, I haven't seen A833 teeth that nice for probably decades now. Sheldon

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: autoxcuda] #1324075 10/21/12 09:47 PM 10/21/12 09:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts
autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal	Ok, I was looking at the Mopar Performance Chassis manual page 119 figure 6-13. I've looked at it about 5-6 times since last night and I think I finally figured it out. Note: It would have been a lot easier if MP would have just put a line between the main and cluster teeth counts to signify divided by. You no, since that is how they do it in mathematics. MP must have been trying to save ink. 1st gear ratio= (35/17) x (30/25) = 2.47 2nd gear ratio= (34/23) x (30/25) = 1.77 3rdd gear ratio= (29/26) x (30/25) = 1.39 . . . . Am I correct on this? Do I get a happy face sticker?! Last edited by autoxcuda; 10/27/12 12:19 AM.

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: dulcich] #1324076 10/21/12 09:54 PM 10/21/12 09:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts
autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal	Quote: BULL!!! It looks to be in exceptionally good condition to me. Quote: I have to agree, I haven't seen A833 teeth that nice for probably decades now. Sheldon Really?!? Oh my, I'm blushing and all flustered Edit: Ok been downgraded to "good" condition. I feel better that it seems to be a decent deal for the $250 I paid for it. I actually wanted the close ratio gearset for Road Course track days. I think most people prefer the 2.66 1st's? Last edited by autoxcuda; 10/22/12 01:21 AM.

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: autoxcuda] #1324077 10/21/12 09:59 PM 10/21/12 09:59 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 12,291 Kent, Wa 340SHORTY Truck Nut
340SHORTY Truck Nut Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 12,291 Kent, Wa	Is it a cast iron case or Aluminimum? I cant remember when they quit using the 833 and went to the 0D833.. The little teeth that match to the little teeth on the syncros are what you need to look for. If they are runded they need replaced. If the hace clean edges they are good to go. I am truckless..

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: 340SHORTY] #1324078 10/21/12 10:05 PM 10/21/12 10:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts
autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal	Quote: Is it a cast iron case or Aluminimum? I cant remember when they quit using the 833 and went to the 0D833.. The little teeth that match to the little teeth on the syncros are what you need to look for. If they are runded they need replaced. If the hace clean edges they are good to go. It's an iron case. I think by my gear counts, it's a close ratio 2.47/1.77/1.34/1.00 gears ?? What does excellent, acceptable, and bad rounded teeth look like? Do I need better pictures of the teeth?? Last edited by autoxcuda; 10/21/12 10:41 PM.

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: fourgearsavoy] #1324079 10/21/12 10:17 PM 10/21/12 10:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts
autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal	Quote: The clutching teeth on second and third look pretty beat-up to me.All you really need to do is count the drive teeth on the cluster and post what you can count.If you let us know the tooth counts we can tell you what ratio you have. Gus Better pics of the 3rd clutching teeth. What shape is missing or worn? Are they too rounded off on the gear teeth? And/or brass syncro teeth? 7430392-IMG_7828.JPG (50 downloads) Last edited by autoxcuda; 10/21/12 10:18 PM.

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: autoxcuda] #1324080 10/21/12 11:54 PM 10/21/12 11:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,976 Chilliwack B.C. Canada R RUNCHARGER I Live Here
RUNCHARGER I Live Here R Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,976 Chilliwack B.C. Canada	They are a bit worn alright, new ones come to a point. Some of those are good and some are rounded. Not terrible but not new either. The brass synchro ring has been changed for sure. Sheldon

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: autoxcuda] #1324081 10/21/12 11:58 PM 10/21/12 11:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts
autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal	Hears one shift fork: This side looks ok: 7430564-IMG_7781.JPG (106 downloads)

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: autoxcuda] #1324082 10/22/12 12:04 AM 10/22/12 12:04 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts
autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal	Other side with different angle click attachement to magnify 7430574-IMG_7785.JPG (84 downloads) Last edited by autoxcuda; 10/22/12 12:05 AM.

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: autoxcuda] #1324083 10/22/12 12:08 AM 10/22/12 12:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts
autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal	Next shift fork Good side 7430578-IMG_7792.JPG (69 downloads)

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: autoxcuda] #1324084 10/22/12 12:09 AM 10/22/12 12:09 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts
autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal	Not so good side Click attachement to magnify: 7430581-IMG_7794.JPG (90 downloads)

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: autoxcuda] #1324085 10/22/12 12:58 PM 10/22/12 12:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 931 D dulcich super stock
dulcich super stock D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 931	I think Gus might have been right all along. It's hard to tell from those shots but if the dog teeth on the gears are rounded off and worn, you are going to need new gears. -dulcich

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: dulcich] #1324086 10/22/12 01:13 PM 10/22/12 01:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts
autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal	Quote: I think Gus might have been right all along. It's hard to tell from those shots but if the dog teeth on the gears are rounded off and worn, you are going to need new gears. -dulcich I'm trying to work up a good picture. Would be nice to know just how pointed they are supposed to look. I can't find a good picture of even a new one to reference to.

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: autoxcuda] #1324087 10/22/12 01:25 PM 10/22/12 01:25 PM
Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 18,678 Fresno, CA Jim_Lusk I Live Here
Jim_Lusk I Live Here Joined: Mar 2003 Posts: 18,678 Fresno, CA	The dog teeth can be fixed if they are worn, BUT I have used many that others thought were worn out. I'd be very tempted to put it in and run it, but ONLY if you have your other car road worthy (then again, I wouldn't do the swap with a fresh trans if you didn't have the other car on the road).

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: Jim_Lusk] #1324088 10/22/12 01:37 PM 10/22/12 01:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts
autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal	Trying to learn here and get a feel for what I am looking at and looking for in the future. I bet I'm not alone. 4th gear is on top in this picture. I brake cleaned some of the teeth. It seems in the pictures when you look at the teeth that are straight up to the camera they look more pointed. But when you look at them in an angle from the camera they look more rounded. How would you rate these THREE cleaned off dog teeth on top that are front and center? The 4th gear has some light pitting on some gear teeth. Acceptable, not a big deal, or bad? click attachment to magnify. 7431034-IMG_7831.JPG (138 downloads) Last edited by autoxcuda; 10/22/12 01:48 PM.

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: autoxcuda] #1324089 10/22/12 02:05 PM 10/22/12 02:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts
autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal	Is the hard angle at the bottom of the teeth here supposed to continue all the way to the top of the teeth? 7431055-IMG_7831withNotes.JPG (104 downloads)

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: autoxcuda] #1324090 10/22/12 05:28 PM 10/22/12 05:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts
autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal	???

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: dulcich] #1324091 10/22/12 11:32 PM 10/22/12 11:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 10,552 Rittman Ohio fourgearsavoy I Live Here
fourgearsavoy I Live Here Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 10,552 Rittman Ohio	Quote: I think Gus might have been right all along. It's hard to tell from those shots but if the dog teeth on the gears are rounded off and worn, you are going to need new gears. -dulcich Why would you question a guy with "fourgear" in his title The gears would probably work but high speed power shifts would be a challenge for sure The teeth should look like the roof of a house with a point at the top not too rounded off.The brass is always replaced in my rebuilds so it's condition is of no concern.The shift forks are OK but I would chop off the nub and install them in a good ball/detent cover from an early 833. Gus 7431718-mysavoy.jpg (50 downloads) Last edited by fourgearsavoy; 10/22/12 11:36 PM. 64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: autoxcuda] #1324092 10/22/12 11:32 PM 10/22/12 11:32 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 12,291 Kent, Wa 340SHORTY Truck Nut
340SHORTY Truck Nut Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 12,291 Kent, Wa	None of those teeth look good enough to reuse that gear IMO. They should have nice clean edges.. Get a new syncro ring and compare them. The gear mesh teeth should look like the new syncro teeth.. I am truckless..

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: 340SHORTY] #1324093 10/22/12 11:48 PM 10/22/12 11:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 10,552 Rittman Ohio fourgearsavoy I Live Here
fourgearsavoy I Live Here Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 10,552 Rittman Ohio	This photo might still be too big but it shows the points you are looking for in a used trans.This is a HEMI box I did for a member on this board. 7431739-IMG_0027.JPG (181 downloads) 64 Plymouth Savoy 493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow 5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box Dana 60

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: fourgearsavoy] #1324094 10/23/12 12:22 AM 10/23/12 12:22 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts
autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal	Quote: This photo might still be too big but it shows the points you are looking for in a used trans.This is a HEMI box I did for a member on this board. Thank you. Not too small at all. Could be even bigger. It's tough to get a good macro focus in the pictures I took. So.... What I was guessing was right. the point at the base of the clutching teeth is susposed to go all the way to the top. There is not another top cut to the teeth. When I look at your picture I notice the 4 gear teeth are the most worn of all four. Still very nice and better that what I have, but am I analyzing that correct? I your picture are any of those gears brand new? Obviously the brass syncros are all new since you got paid to rebuild it. What's the advantage of the ball detent cover plate?

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: fourgearsavoy] #1324095 10/23/12 12:28 AM 10/23/12 12:28 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts
autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal	Quote: ....The shift forks are OK but I would chop off the nub and install them in a good ball/detent cover from an early 833. Gus Is this gouge ok? 7431802-IMG_7784.JPG (104 downloads)

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: autoxcuda] #1324096 10/23/12 05:21 AM 10/23/12 05:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,936 Holly/MI D Dean_Kuzluzski master
Dean_Kuzluzski master D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,936 Holly/MI	I went through a close ratio trans like that back in 2010. It was a 1973. My gears were a lot nicer than that and it would crunch doing a powershift into 3rd before I took it out of the car. Gears are actually more expensive for that trans than the early wide ratio trans of the muscle era. I got a couple decent used and new gears from "Paul" at Liberty Gears. A very nice guy to deal with. You might be able to polish/deburr that shift fork and reuse it. There are some shops, I've heard, that will plate forks to tighen up clearances. Probably not cheap. Converting to the earlier style forks/cover is probably a better idea, as mentioned. R.I.P.- Gary "Coop" Davis 02/09/68-05/13/04

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: Dean_Kuzluzski] #1324097 10/23/12 07:53 AM 10/23/12 07:53 AM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 21,345 Marysville, O-H-I-O 70Cuda383 Too Many Posts
70Cuda383 Too Many Posts Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 21,345 Marysville, O-H-I-O	the easiest way for me to figure out gear ratios, is to put it into gear, and start turning the input shaft. count how many times you have to turn the input, to get 1 full rotation of the output. mark them with a sharpie to help you determine. Photobucket sucks

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: autoxcuda] #1324098 10/23/12 08:18 AM 10/23/12 08:18 AM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 28,312 Cincinnati, Ohio Challenger 1 Too Many Posts
Challenger 1 Too Many Posts Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 28,312 Cincinnati, Ohio	I have been taught by guys who rebuild gear boxes everyday that you should disassemble the tranny and clean all the oil off and then glass bead them clean. Then you can make acurate assement of the condition of the gears. The picture someone posted from Brewers site shows the gears after bead blasting.

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: Challenger 1] #1324099 10/23/12 02:59 PM 10/23/12 02:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376 D dogdays I Live Here
dogdays I Live Here D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376	Put it in a crate and ship it to Passon. It sounds like you are going to do some serious driving with that box. Better to fix it now than to sweep up the pieces later. R.

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: dogdays] #1324100 10/23/12 06:54 PM 10/23/12 06:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,757 Gilbertsville, PA 19525 P Pntastar69 master
Pntastar69 master P Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,757 Gilbertsville, PA 19525	Quote: Put it in a crate and ship it to Passon. It sounds like you are going to do some serious driving with that box. Better to fix it now than to sweep up the pieces later. R. Ditto. I disassembled mine and degreased everything and took all of the internals to Jamie Passon. He hooked me up w/a rebuild kit and other parts needed and gave instruction tips on the rebuild/assembly. 3 years later, still works like a charm.

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: Pntastar69] #1324101 10/23/12 07:43 PM 10/23/12 07:43 PM
Joined: Jul 2009 Posts: 198 Staten Island, NY T Theorio1025 member
Theorio1025 member T Joined: Jul 2009 Posts: 198 Staten Island, NY	+1 on Jamie Passon. He walked me through diagnosing and repairing my 833. Great customer service.

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: Theorio1025] #1324102 10/23/12 07:50 PM 10/23/12 07:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts
autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal	I'm just a little too far away to drop by Pennsylvania to his shop. Looks like he cuts/files the clutching teeth down to get the point/triangle back again. But tough to see in the picture on his website of reconditioned gears.

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: autoxcuda] #1324103 10/24/12 11:11 AM 10/24/12 11:11 AM
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,366 Wheatfield, NY Cuda340 top fuel
Cuda340 top fuel Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 2,366 Wheatfield, NY	Quote: I'm just a little too far away to drop by Pennsylvania to his shop. Looks like he cuts/files the clutching teeth down to get the point/triangle back again. But tough to see in the picture on his website of reconditioned gears. Yes you can re-dress the clutching teeth back to original shape if they are not too bad...

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: autoxcuda] #1324104 10/24/12 01:25 PM 10/24/12 01:25 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 11,179 Atco NJ DJVCuda I Live Here
DJVCuda I Live Here Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 11,179 Atco NJ	Quote: Quote: ....The shift forks are OK but I would chop off the nub and install them in a good ball/detent cover from an early 833. Gus Is this gouge ok? If it were my tranny i'd get new forks another vote for Jamie Passon - you could email him the pix and get some more feedback

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: DJVCuda] #1324105 10/24/12 01:43 PM 10/24/12 01:43 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,118 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,118 Bend,OR USA	Quote: Quote: Quote: ....The shift forks are OK but I would chop off the nub and install them in a good ball/detent cover from an early 833. Gus Is this gouge ok? If it were my tranny i'd get new forks another vote for Jamie Passon - you could email him the pix and get some more feedback Those are the stock steel forks, I would use them I did a older 2.66 box for a customer several years back, I sent his gears to Liberty to have them replace the engagemnet teeth ring,and they converted them to Pro Shift I called them back and ask why did they do that instead of replacing the rings with stock ones, thier explanation was that stock ones aren't availble. I had told them that this box was a street box, not a race box He siad put it together and drive it and then call them back, it would work fine It DID Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: Cuda340] #1324106 10/24/12 02:59 PM 10/24/12 02:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts
autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal	Quote: Quote: I'm just a little too far away to drop by Pennsylvania to his shop. Looks like he cuts/files the clutching teeth down to get the point/triangle back again. But tough to see in the picture on his website of reconditioned gears. Yes you can re-dress the clutching teeth back to original shape if they are not too bad... Best way, procedure, and tools needed to do this? Any pictures of someone doing this?

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: Cab_Burge] #1324107 10/24/12 02:59 PM 10/24/12 02:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts
autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal	Quote: Those are the stock steel forks, I would use them Would/should you file down the gouge? Is a thinner cross section there going to create some looseness somewhere? Quote: I did a older 2.66 box for a customer several years back, I sent his gears to Liberty to have them replace the engagemnet teeth ring,and they converted them to Pro Shift I called them back and ask why did they do that instead of replacing the rings with stock ones, thier explanation was that stock ones aren't availble. I had told them that this box was a street box, not a race box He siad put it together and drive it and then call them back, it would work fine It DID The clutching teeth are part of the gear, correct? So does liberty have a way of putting new teeth on it or do they modify the old teeth?

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: autoxcuda] #1324108 10/24/12 03:38 PM 10/24/12 03:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,757 Gilbertsville, PA 19525 P Pntastar69 master
Pntastar69 master P Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,757 Gilbertsville, PA 19525	I would contact Jamie and ask if you could ship the parts to him for inspection, minus the case and tailshaft of course. Replace what it needs and install it, once and done .

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: autoxcuda] #1324109 10/24/12 10:43 PM 10/24/12 10:43 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,118 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,118 Bend,OR USA	Quote: Quote: Those are the stock steel forks, I would use them Would/should you file down the gouge? Is a thinner cross section there going to create some looseness somewhere? Quote: I did a older 2.66 box for a customer several years back, I sent his gears to Liberty to have them replace the engagemnet teeth ring,and they converted them to Pro Shift I called them back and ask why did they do that instead of replacing the rings with stock ones, thier explanation was that stock ones aren't availble. I had told them that this box was a street box, not a race box He siad put it together and drive it and then call them back, it would work fine It DID The clutching teeth are part of the gear, correct? So does liberty have a way of putting new teeth on it or do they modify the old teeth? I would not touch the forks, it(the slider) will ride on the high parts Liberty cuts the ring that the small steel teeth are on off and welds a new ring on the old gear with the bigger pro shifted lugs on them I don't have any pictures of the pro shifted lugs but theyr'e no where near looking like the stock factory gears look Maybe someone else can type a link in on here showing the pro shifted lugs and the faceplated gears together Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: autoxcuda] #1324110 10/25/12 10:26 AM 10/25/12 10:26 AM
Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 869 Sugarloaf, PA. USA J JamiePasson super stock
JamiePasson super stock J Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 869 Sugarloaf, PA. USA	Forks look womped. The synchro teeth on the speed gears are nothing to write home to mom about either. Input doesn't look horrible. One thing no one is considering is wear on the coast side of the synchro teeth. I cannot tell you how many gears we have canned with PERFECT points that popped out of gear because the coast side of the teeth are worn so bad. Put them in a box and send them over. I will gladly look at the stuff for no charge and get you headed in the right direction. By the way, it IS a 2.47 ratio unit. I am very hesitant to diagnose synchro teeth by a digital picture of an oily dirty gear. You just cannot see the detail needed. Let me know if you need help. Jamie Passon Performance 309 Turkey Path Sugarloaf, PA 18249 (570) 401 8949 www.passonperformance.com

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: Cuda340] #1324111 10/25/12 11:05 PM 10/25/12 11:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,974 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,974 U.S.S.A.	Quote: Quote: I'm just a little too far away to drop by Pennsylvania to his shop. Looks like he cuts/files the clutching teeth down to get the point/triangle back again. But tough to see in the picture on his website of reconditioned gears. Yes you can re-dress the clutching teeth back to original shape if they are not too bad... I've seen worse , I use a dremel with a small stone and put the points back and smooth down the chips , it they are real bad you can send just the gears to Passon , Brewer or Liberty ... I'm with Jamie on the forks , the person that put the most miles on that trans did it with his hand resting on the shifter. One MIGHT be able to dress those flat and smooth again and not weaken them too much .

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: JamiePasson] #1324112 10/26/12 11:18 PM 10/26/12 11:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,936 Holly/MI D Dean_Kuzluzski master
Dean_Kuzluzski master D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,936 Holly/MI	Quote: By the way, it IS a 2.47 ratio unit. Jamie Yep, as told to me by Paul at Liberty Gear, the 3 linear cuts on the tips of the gearteeth are for the assembly line worker to be able to quickly identify that ratio for assemby. That's what mine checked out as. R.I.P.- Gary "Coop" Davis 02/09/68-05/13/04

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: Dean_Kuzluzski] #1324113 10/29/12 12:03 AM 10/29/12 12:03 AM
Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 869 Sugarloaf, PA. USA J JamiePasson super stock
JamiePasson super stock J Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 869 Sugarloaf, PA. USA	Actually, the grooves were for the parts guys pulling and dealers ordering parts. The 2.66 and 2.47 ratios were not built at the same time in the factory. The 2.66 and 2.47 ratios have the same tooth counts for second and third gear. But don't listen to me, I don't know what I am talking about. Passon Performance 309 Turkey Path Sugarloaf, PA 18249 (570) 401 8949 www.passonperformance.com

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: JamiePasson] #1324114 10/29/12 12:15 AM 10/29/12 12:15 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts
autoxcuda OP Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,453 So Cal	Quote: Actually, the grooves were for the parts guys pulling and dealers ordering parts. The 2.66 and 2.47 ratios were not built at the same time in the factory. The 2.66 and 2.47 ratios have the same tooth counts for second and third gear. But don't listen to me, I don't know what I am talking about. So are the 2nd and 3rd mainshaft gears interchangable between 2.66 and 2.47 trans'?

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: autoxcuda] #1324115 10/29/12 10:55 AM 10/29/12 10:55 AM
Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 766 Ohio Dan Brewer super stock
Dan Brewer super stock Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 766 Ohio	Quote: Quote: Actually, the grooves were for the parts guys pulling and dealers ordering parts. The 2.66 and 2.47 ratios were not built at the same time in the factory. The 2.66 and 2.47 ratios have the same tooth counts for second and third gear. But don't listen to me, I don't know what I am talking about. So are the 2nd and 3rd mainshaft gears interchangable between 2.66 and 2.47 trans'? NO. A833 4-speeds, parts & services http://www.brewersperformance.com/

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