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Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: autoxcuda] #1324087
10/22/12 01:25 PM
10/22/12 01:25 PM
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Fresno, CA
Jim_Lusk Offline
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The dog teeth can be fixed if they are worn, BUT I have used many that others thought were worn out. I'd be very tempted to put it in and run it, but ONLY if you have your other car road worthy (then again, I wouldn't do the swap with a fresh trans if you didn't have the other car on the road).

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: Jim_Lusk] #1324088
10/22/12 01:37 PM
10/22/12 01:37 PM
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Trying to learn here and get a feel for what I am looking at and looking for in the future. I bet I'm not alone.

4th gear is on top in this picture. I brake cleaned some of the teeth. It seems in the pictures when you look at the teeth that are straight up to the camera they look more pointed. But when you look at them in an angle from the camera they look more rounded.

How would you rate these THREE cleaned off dog teeth on top that are front and center?

The 4th gear has some light pitting on some gear teeth. Acceptable, not a big deal, or bad?

click attachment to magnify.

7431034-IMG_7831.JPG (137 downloads)
Last edited by autoxcuda; 10/22/12 01:48 PM.
Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: autoxcuda] #1324089
10/22/12 02:05 PM
10/22/12 02:05 PM
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Is the hard angle at the bottom of the teeth here supposed to continue all the way to the top of the teeth?

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: autoxcuda] #1324090
10/22/12 05:28 PM
10/22/12 05:28 PM
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???

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: dulcich] #1324091
10/22/12 11:32 PM
10/22/12 11:32 PM
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Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy Offline
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Quote:

I think Gus might have been right all along. It's hard to tell from those shots but if the dog teeth on the gears are rounded off and worn, you are going to need new gears.
-dulcich



Why would you question a guy with "fourgear" in his title
The gears would probably work but high speed power shifts would be a challenge for sure
The teeth should look like the roof of a house with a point at the top not too rounded off.The brass is always replaced in my rebuilds so it's condition is of no concern.The shift forks are OK but I would chop off the nub and install them in a good ball/detent cover from an early 833.
Gus

7431718-mysavoy.jpg (49 downloads)
Last edited by fourgearsavoy; 10/22/12 11:36 PM.

64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: autoxcuda] #1324092
10/22/12 11:32 PM
10/22/12 11:32 PM
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Kent, Wa
340SHORTY Offline
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None of those teeth look good enough to reuse that gear IMO. They should have nice clean edges.. Get a new syncro ring and compare them. The gear mesh teeth should look like the new syncro teeth..


I am truckless..
Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: 340SHORTY] #1324093
10/22/12 11:48 PM
10/22/12 11:48 PM
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Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy Offline
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This photo might still be too big but it shows the points you are looking for in a used trans.This is a HEMI box I did for a member on this board.

7431739-IMG_0027.JPG (180 downloads)

64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: fourgearsavoy] #1324094
10/23/12 12:22 AM
10/23/12 12:22 AM
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Quote:

This photo might still be too big but it shows the points you are looking for in a used trans.This is a HEMI box I did for a member on this board.




Thank you.

Not too small at all. Could be even bigger. It's tough to get a good macro focus in the pictures I took.

So....

What I was guessing was right. the point at the base of the clutching teeth is susposed to go all the way to the top. There is not another top cut to the teeth.

When I look at your picture I notice the 4 gear teeth are the most worn of all four. Still very nice and better that what I have, but am I analyzing that correct?

I your picture are any of those gears brand new? Obviously the brass syncros are all new since you got paid to rebuild it.

What's the advantage of the ball detent cover plate?

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: fourgearsavoy] #1324095
10/23/12 12:28 AM
10/23/12 12:28 AM
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Quote:

....The shift forks are OK but I would chop off the nub and install them in a good ball/detent cover from an early 833.
Gus




Is this gouge ok?

7431802-IMG_7784.JPG (103 downloads)
Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: autoxcuda] #1324096
10/23/12 05:21 AM
10/23/12 05:21 AM
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Holly/MI
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Dean_Kuzluzski Offline
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I went through a close ratio trans like that back in 2010. It was a 1973. My gears were a lot nicer than that and it would crunch doing a powershift into 3rd before I took it out of the car.

Gears are actually more expensive for that trans than the early wide ratio trans of the muscle era.

I got a couple decent used and new gears from "Paul" at Liberty Gears. A very nice guy to deal with.

You might be able to polish/deburr that shift fork and reuse it. There are some shops, I've heard, that will plate forks to tighen up clearances. Probably not cheap.

Converting to the earlier style forks/cover is probably a better idea, as mentioned.


R.I.P.- Gary "Coop" Davis 02/09/68-05/13/04
Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: Dean_Kuzluzski] #1324097
10/23/12 07:53 AM
10/23/12 07:53 AM
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Marysville, O-H-I-O
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the easiest way for me to figure out gear ratios, is to put it into gear, and start turning the input shaft. count how many times you have to turn the input, to get 1 full rotation of the output. mark them with a sharpie to help you determine.


**Photobucket sucks**
Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: autoxcuda] #1324098
10/23/12 08:18 AM
10/23/12 08:18 AM
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Cincinnati, Ohio
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I have been taught by guys who rebuild gear boxes everyday that you should disassemble the tranny and clean all the oil off and then glass bead them clean. Then you can make acurate assement of the condition of the gears. The picture someone posted from Brewers site shows the gears after bead blasting.

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: Challenger 1] #1324099
10/23/12 02:59 PM
10/23/12 02:59 PM
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Put it in a crate and ship it to Passon. It sounds like you are going to do some serious driving with that box.
Better to fix it now than to sweep up the pieces later.
R.

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: dogdays] #1324100
10/23/12 06:54 PM
10/23/12 06:54 PM
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Quote:

Put it in a crate and ship it to Passon. It sounds like you are going to do some serious driving with that box.
Better to fix it now than to sweep up the pieces later.
R.




Ditto.
I disassembled mine and degreased everything and took all of the internals to Jamie Passon. He hooked me up w/a rebuild kit and other parts needed and gave instruction tips on the rebuild/assembly. 3 years later, still works like a charm.

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: Pntastar69] #1324101
10/23/12 07:43 PM
10/23/12 07:43 PM
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+1 on Jamie Passon. He walked me through diagnosing and repairing my 833. Great customer service.

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: Theorio1025] #1324102
10/23/12 07:50 PM
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I'm just a little too far away to drop by Pennsylvania to his shop.

Looks like he cuts/files the clutching teeth down to get the point/triangle back again. But tough to see in the picture on his website of reconditioned gears.

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: autoxcuda] #1324103
10/24/12 11:11 AM
10/24/12 11:11 AM
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Wheatfield, NY
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Quote:

I'm just a little too far away to drop by Pennsylvania to his shop.

Looks like he cuts/files the clutching teeth down to get the point/triangle back again. But tough to see in the picture on his website of reconditioned gears.




Yes you can re-dress the clutching teeth back to original shape if they are not too bad...

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: autoxcuda] #1324104
10/24/12 01:25 PM
10/24/12 01:25 PM
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Atco NJ
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Quote:

Quote:

....The shift forks are OK but I would chop off the nub and install them in a good ball/detent cover from an early 833.
Gus




Is this gouge ok?




If it were my tranny i'd get new forks

another vote for Jamie Passon - you could email him the pix and get some more feedback

Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: DJVCuda] #1324105
10/24/12 01:43 PM
10/24/12 01:43 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

....The shift forks are OK but I would chop off the nub and install them in a good ball/detent cover from an early 833.
Gus




Is this gouge ok?




If it were my tranny i'd get new forks

another vote for Jamie Passon - you could email him the pix and get some more feedback


Those are the stock steel forks, I would use them I did a older 2.66 box for a customer several years back, I sent his gears to Liberty to have them replace the engagemnet teeth ring,and they converted them to Pro Shift I called them back and ask why did they do that instead of replacing the rings with stock ones, thier explanation was that stock ones aren't availble. I had told them that this box was a street box, not a race box He siad put it together and drive it and then call them back, it would work fine It DID


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: Cuda340] #1324106
10/24/12 02:59 PM
10/24/12 02:59 PM
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So Cal
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Quote:

Quote:

I'm just a little too far away to drop by Pennsylvania to his shop.

Looks like he cuts/files the clutching teeth down to get the point/triangle back again. But tough to see in the picture on his website of reconditioned gears.




Yes you can re-dress the clutching teeth back to original shape if they are not too bad...




Best way, procedure, and tools needed to do this?

Any pictures of someone doing this?

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