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4 speed trans help: Determining condition? w/pics #1324067
10/21/12 08:12 PM 10/21/12 08:12 PM
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autoxcuda Offline OP
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Just got my hands on a bare A-body 4 speed.

It appears pretty good. Just wondering if someone can give there expert opinion on gear, syncro, and shift fork conditon.

Also I'm trying to determin the trans ratio.
The trans codes/dates:
4B2545 = 1974 Hamtramck
PPA8334557 = A883 built on Friday, January 18, 1974







Please click attachment to see gears and syncro ring teeth shape

Last edited by autoxcuda; 10/21/12 10:58 PM.
Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: autoxcuda] #1324068
10/21/12 08:16 PM 10/21/12 08:16 PM
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Lawton, MI
Headhunter22 Offline
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For information on ratios, ..etc I would nose around Brewers website. He's a sponser here and also has some really good information on his website.

For ratios, I think this would answer your questions hopefully. On the parts, I'm sure others with more experience will chime in. Good luck. web page

Steve
Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: Headhunter22] #1324069
10/21/12 08:31 PM 10/21/12 08:31 PM
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Quote:

For information on ratios, ..etc I would nose around Brewers website. He's a sponser here and also has some really good information on his website.

For ratios, I think this would answer your questions hopefully. On the parts, I'm sure others with more experience will chime in. Good luck. web page

Steve



Looked around that site and Passon all last night and today. But didn't think of getting info from the ordering page.

My Main Shaft gears have three cuts/indents on edge of the teeth. And the cluster gear has three cuts in it. Just like this one they list as a 2.47 gear set.

So does this mean I have a 2.47 gear set.

They match these pictures on the Brewers site:




Last edited by autoxcuda; 10/22/12 01:14 AM.
Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: autoxcuda] #1324070
10/21/12 08:48 PM 10/21/12 08:48 PM
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What condition are these gears and synro rings?






Please click attachment to see picture magnified:


Last edited by autoxcuda; 10/21/12 08:54 PM.
Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: autoxcuda] #1324071
10/21/12 08:59 PM 10/21/12 08:59 PM
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Rittman Ohio
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The clutching teeth on second and third look pretty beat-up to me.All you really need to do is count the drive teeth on the cluster and post what you can count.If you let us know the tooth counts we can tell you what ratio you have.
Gus

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Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: fourgearsavoy] #1324072
10/21/12 09:17 PM 10/21/12 09:17 PM
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Quote:

The clutching teeth on second and third look pretty beat-up to me.All you really need to do is count the drive teeth on the cluster and post what you can count.If you let us know the tooth counts we can tell you what ratio you have.
Gus



Will do
.
.
.
With illustration

Tooth counts:
Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: fourgearsavoy] #1324073
10/21/12 09:35 PM 10/21/12 09:35 PM
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Quote:

The clutching teeth on second and third look pretty beat-up to me.All you really need to do is count the drive teeth on the cluster and post what you can count.If you let us know the tooth counts we can tell you what ratio you have.
Gus



It looks to be in good condition to me.
Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: dulcich] #1324074
10/21/12 09:38 PM 10/21/12 09:38 PM
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Chilliwack B.C. Canada
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I have to agree, I haven't seen A833 teeth that nice for probably decades now.

Sheldon
Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: autoxcuda] #1324075
10/21/12 09:47 PM 10/21/12 09:47 PM
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Ok, I was looking at the Mopar Performance Chassis manual page 119 figure 6-13. I've looked at it about 5-6 times since last night and I think I finally figured it out.

Note: It would have been a lot easier if MP would have just put a line between the main and cluster teeth counts to signify divided by. You no, since that is how they do it in mathematics.

MP must have been trying to save ink.

1st gear ratio=

(35/17) x (30/25) = 2.47

2nd gear ratio=

(34/23) x (30/25) = 1.77

3rdd gear ratio=

(29/26) x (30/25) = 1.39

.
.
.
.
Am I correct on this?

Do I get a happy face sticker?!

Last edited by autoxcuda; 10/27/12 12:19 AM.
Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: dulcich] #1324076
10/21/12 09:54 PM 10/21/12 09:54 PM
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Quote:


BULL!!! It looks to be in exceptionally good condition to me.



Quote:

I have to agree, I haven't seen A833 teeth that nice for probably decades now.

Sheldon



Really?!?

Oh my, I'm blushing and all flustered

Edit: Ok been downgraded to "good" condition.

I feel better that it seems to be a decent deal for the $250 I paid for it. I actually wanted the close ratio gearset for Road Course track days. I think most people prefer the 2.66 1st's?

Last edited by autoxcuda; 10/22/12 01:21 AM.
Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: autoxcuda] #1324077
10/21/12 09:59 PM 10/21/12 09:59 PM
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Kent, Wa
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Is it a cast iron case or Aluminimum? I cant remember when they quit using the 833 and went to the 0D833.. The little teeth that match to the little teeth on the syncros are what you need to look for. If they are runded they need replaced. If the hace clean edges they are good to go.

I am truckless..
Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: 340SHORTY] #1324078
10/21/12 10:05 PM 10/21/12 10:05 PM
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Quote:

Is it a cast iron case or Aluminimum? I cant remember when they quit using the 833 and went to the 0D833.. The little teeth that match to the little teeth on the syncros are what you need to look for. If they are runded they need replaced. If the hace clean edges they are good to go.



It's an iron case. I think by my gear counts, it's a close ratio 2.47/1.77/1.34/1.00 gears ??

What does excellent, acceptable, and bad rounded teeth look like?

Do I need better pictures of the teeth??

Last edited by autoxcuda; 10/21/12 10:41 PM.
Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: fourgearsavoy] #1324079
10/21/12 10:17 PM 10/21/12 10:17 PM
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Quote:

The clutching teeth on second and third look pretty beat-up to me.All you really need to do is count the drive teeth on the cluster and post what you can count.If you let us know the tooth counts we can tell you what ratio you have.
Gus



Better pics of the 3rd clutching teeth.

What shape is missing or worn? Are they too rounded off on the gear teeth? And/or brass syncro teeth?




7430392-IMG_7828.JPG (49 downloads)
Last edited by autoxcuda; 10/21/12 10:18 PM.
Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: autoxcuda] #1324080
10/21/12 11:54 PM 10/21/12 11:54 PM
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They are a bit worn alright, new ones come to a point. Some of those are good and some are rounded. Not terrible but not new either. The brass synchro ring has been changed for sure.

Sheldon
Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: autoxcuda] #1324081
10/21/12 11:58 PM 10/21/12 11:58 PM
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Hears one shift fork:

This side looks ok:

7430564-IMG_7781.JPG (105 downloads)
Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: autoxcuda] #1324082
10/22/12 12:04 AM 10/22/12 12:04 AM
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Other side with different angle

click attachement to magnify


7430574-IMG_7785.JPG (83 downloads)
Last edited by autoxcuda; 10/22/12 12:05 AM.
Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: autoxcuda] #1324083
10/22/12 12:08 AM 10/22/12 12:08 AM
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Next shift fork

Good side

7430578-IMG_7792.JPG (68 downloads)
Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: autoxcuda] #1324084
10/22/12 12:09 AM 10/22/12 12:09 AM
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Not so good side

Click attachement to magnify:

7430581-IMG_7794.JPG (89 downloads)
Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: autoxcuda] #1324085
10/22/12 12:58 PM 10/22/12 12:58 PM
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I think Gus might have been right all along. It's hard to tell from those shots but if the dog teeth on the gears are rounded off and worn, you are going to need new gears.
-dulcich
Re: 4 speed trans: Condition and determining gearsets? [Re: dulcich] #1324086
10/22/12 01:13 PM 10/22/12 01:13 PM
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Quote:

I think Gus might have been right all along. It's hard to tell from those shots but if the dog teeth on the gears are rounded off and worn, you are going to need new gears.
-dulcich



I'm trying to work up a good picture. Would be nice to know just how pointed they are supposed to look. I can't find a good picture of even a new one to reference to.
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