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Unbelievably frustrating afternoon. #1313024
09/30/12 01:21 AM
09/30/12 01:21 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,013
near Kansas City
igozumn Offline OP
super stock
igozumn  Offline OP
super stock

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,013
near Kansas City
Buddy of mine has a '70 Superbee. Mostly original car 383 pistol grip bench seat, manual brakes, manual steering, originally Plum Crazy with white stripes that the 2nd owner painted yellow with black stripes. Solid body, nice 20 footer that any of us would be proud to own. Except for tonight.

Years back, we/he put another 8 3/4 chunk in the back with 3.91 suregrip. 489 case. Everything seemed ok, but a little noisy and more vibes coming through with the increase in revs. After a while it seemed like it developed a leak. Thought it was our installation, but the car sees limited miles, so not high on the priority list to tear it apart. Plus, life and money always affect our plans, right? Anyways, figured out earlier this year that the pinion seal was the culprit of the leak and so we looked at options as far as just getting it fixed vs. having someone go through the entire center section. Also determined at the same time that the front u-joint was bad. We figured we should change both joints and re-evaluate the behavior/manners of the 3.91 gears on the road vs. possibly having it changed over to the more highway friendly 3.55. No problem. Should only take an hour or so, right?

Shows up at the house at 2pm. Get the shaft out and confirm his suspicion of recollection of having the rear u-joint be one of those odd 2 size cross joints. The 3.91 chunk that we put in 15 years ago required the odd size joint due to a smaller yoke. I already knew we probably wouldn't find one in stock.

Take the shaft up to where I work, and press all the joints out. No problems, just like it should. Run down to Napa for the regular front joint (the bad one) and maybe luck out with a new odd sized joint. No luck, but they do have the regular one up front and since that's the really really bad one, we figure we'll try o'reillys on the way back to my work. Oreillys doesn't have it either but the guy goes ahead and orders it in for tomorrow. Kinda pushy guy behind the counter, but ok, we can put it in later when we have the 8 3/4 chunk taken out. Stop by home to make sure we remember which end of the driveshaft has the narrowed end. Simply marking the driveshaft "front" and "rear" seems so simple now, LOL. Duh. Get back to my work and start to put the new joint in the slipe yoke. Problem is, the caps slide into the yoke, like they're a thousanth or two too small. Plus, the clips are not thick enough, meaning the groove they snap into is wider than the clips. The groove is the right width, but the clips are too thin. Assemble the joint and the whole thing moves back and forth in the yoke. Not cool. Put the old odd sized joint back into the rear of the shaft no problem. Run back to Napa, (dreading talking to some kid that is 15 years younger than I) and ask about this new joint, and he brings out another of the same joints, plus one from another line of product. Found the cheaper joint had the wider clips and the caps did not slide into the yoke by hand like the one we just got. So, yay for that. Exchanged it and it appeared we were golden.

Go back to the house, cause I figure we can put it all back together with what I have at home. Get home and it looks and feels good going back together except I can't get one of the caps all the way in, cause it looks like one of the needles fell. Run back to work (it's now 5:30) and pull it all apart and sure enough one of the needles did fall, but since we were ginger putting it together, the needle was fine. Got it all back together and was walking out to the car when one of the unsecured caps on the back fell off and we lost 1/4 of the needles. I have a couple of new, but cannibalized joints at home, so I figure we can rob some needles out of one. After all, we have another odd joint showing up tomorrow at O'reillys, right? Get home and get it back together and in the car when I realize I forgot 2 clips. Ungh. No big deal as I wanted to run a tap down the holes in the rear end yoke. Pull it, clip it, was running the tap when I got a mean eyelash or something in my eye. 20 minutes fixing that alone! Get it ALLLLL back together, greased up.....let me tell you about the grease.

With the odd shape joint in the back, you can't get the grease gun fitting in there. When we pulled the shaft to put the 2 clips in, we put the shaft in a vise holding the loose caps on so I could shoot the grease in without the caps coming off.

So, ALLLLL back together, and ready for a drive. Within 10 miles the car seems worse than before and after 15 miles when coming to a stop you can hear the pop/clunk of what sounds like is a loose front u-joint. Got it back home and back up on jackstands and the front joint caps are moving back and forth in the front yoke (just like the first one we got) except all snap rings are in place. Still trying to figure out what's wrong, but I'm guessing the slip yoke is going to have to be replaced.

It just sucks, for a lot of reasons. Some obvious like the huge amount of time wasted and he's no better off, actually it's worse than when we started. The money wasted is the main one, but now, instead of barely being able to throw some dough at having the 3.91 unit rebuilt, he's looking at possibly (probably) fubarred front yoke and junk front joint. And most driveline shops don't fix stuff for free, so..... Also add in the fact that ideally, he'd replace the rear yoke with a correct or normal size so that a regular joint could be used, but then you have to, or might as well have the chunk checked out and that proverbial snow ball just keeps growing and growing and did I mention the transmission tailshaft bushing and clutch?

There's more, but dang. 2 u-joints, 5+ hours...


Stupid full moon anyway.

Re: Unbelievably frustrating afternoon. [Re: igozumn] #1313025
09/30/12 07:58 AM
09/30/12 07:58 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
B
bobs66440 Offline
top fuel
bobs66440  Offline
top fuel
B

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,880
Out in Left Field, NY
Sorry for your troubles. Been there so many times I can't count. Sometimes these cars get frustrating to the point where I want to throw in the towel and get a new Challenger or 'Vette or something...

Hope you get it fixed soon...

Re: Unbelievably frustrating afternoon. [Re: igozumn] #1313026
09/30/12 08:07 AM
09/30/12 08:07 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,336
South-Central (Sebring), FL
Commando1 Offline
master
Commando1  Offline
master

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,336
South-Central (Sebring), FL
Quote:

No problem. Should only take an hour or so, right?



How many times have I said that.....
Look at it this way. Yet another horror story you get to share when with all your buddies.

Re: Unbelievably frustrating afternoon. [Re: Commando1] #1313027
09/30/12 09:47 AM
09/30/12 09:47 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,274
s.w.fl
B
bonefish Offline
master
bonefish  Offline
master
B

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,274
s.w.fl
are you sure your not me?

Re: Unbelievably frustrating afternoon. [Re: bonefish] #1313028
09/30/12 12:10 PM
09/30/12 12:10 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
R
RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
RapidRobert  Offline
Circle Track
R

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
Murphys law can be a disaster. As you mentioned be sure to go thru ALL areas that could possibly be affected by the mishap. After all this you sure dont need a comeback. Good luck & holler how it turns out


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Unbelievably frustrating afternoon. [Re: RapidRobert] #1313029
09/30/12 01:32 PM
09/30/12 01:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,678
Fresno, CA
Jim_Lusk Offline
I Live Here
Jim_Lusk  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,678
Fresno, CA
You have just found out that NAPA parts are no better than parts from any other auto parts store, just more expensive.

Re: Unbelievably frustrating afternoon. [Re: Jim_Lusk] #1313030
09/30/12 04:15 PM
09/30/12 04:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
R
RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
RapidRobert  Offline
Circle Track
R

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
Quote:

just more expensive.


I went to NAPA last week to get some more 1/4" brass female terminals # 725145 (Packard 56?) which were 50 some cents ea several months ago & now they wanted over a buck a piece


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Unbelievably frustrating afternoon. [Re: igozumn] #1313031
09/30/12 05:00 PM
09/30/12 05:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
J
jcc Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
jcc  Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
J

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia




Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: Unbelievably frustrating afternoon. [Re: jcc] #1313032
11/01/12 08:54 AM
11/01/12 08:54 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,013
near Kansas City
igozumn Offline OP
super stock
igozumn  Offline OP
super stock

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,013
near Kansas City
Update.

Got a new front yoke from Brewers and a new joint from a local driveline shop. Everything went together great. Felt tight going together, but not TIGHT, but like it should feel. Yoke felt good in the back of the trans. Out on the road the car has not felt this smooth and quiet since before we switched out the chunk. Also picked up some gaskets and a new rear bushing for the trans. He might pull the trigger before too long on a new clutch, and we'll swap out the bushing with the trans out. Still have the issue with the leaky rear pinion seal, but the main issue of the u-joint fiasco is now behind us.

Re: Unbelievably frustrating afternoon. [Re: igozumn] #1313033
11/01/12 11:18 AM
11/01/12 11:18 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
S
scratchnfotraction Offline
I Live Here
scratchnfotraction  Offline
I Live Here
S

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
remeber the 489 has a crush sleeve. so if you R&R the yoke that is on it you will need to replace the crush sleeve and retorque to crush it...or you can roll the dice on it like some have done with so,so results. (just cause they get away with it does not mean it is the right way to do it.)

if he has it rebuilt,have them install a solid spacer and shims so the yoke can be R&R and just retorqued for seal change.

sounds like my luck working on stuff,i do it the hard way no matter what!

Re: Unbelievably frustrating afternoon. [Re: scratchnfotraction] #1313034
11/01/12 06:49 PM
11/01/12 06:49 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,062
Amherst,NY
challengermike Offline
super stock
challengermike  Offline
super stock

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,062
Amherst,NY
Quote:

remeber the 489 has a crush sleeve. so if you R&R the yoke that is on it you will need to replace the crush sleeve and retorque to crush it...or you can roll the dice on it like some have done with so,so results. (just cause they get away with it does not mean it is the right way to do it.)

if he has it rebuilt,have them install a solid spacer and shims so the yoke can be R&R and just retorqued for seal change.

sounds like my luck working on stuff,i do it the hard way no matter what!




You can do it without replaceing the crush sleeve. You just have to make sure you dont crush it more than it was already. I do them all the time at work and never have a problem. But if you do over crush it you will need to take the diff apart and replace it. You just need to keep turning the yoke and feel how hard it is to turn, if you feel it starting to get tighter that tight enough. Kind of hard to explain as i have been doing it forever but you get a feel for how hard it should turn.

Re: Unbelievably frustrating afternoon. [Re: scratchnfotraction] #1313035
11/01/12 07:58 PM
11/01/12 07:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,472
Lubbock, TX
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Erics5th Offline
UsedtobeSatellite6
Erics5th  Offline
UsedtobeSatellite6
E

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,472
Lubbock, TX
Quote:

sounds like my luck working on stuff,i do it the hard way no matter what!




There are other ways?

Your not alone. I remember replacing the U joints on my old '70 Fury and having a simular experience many years ago. In the rain, in front of my parants house on gravel, need to get to work next day...


Eric






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