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Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question [Re: David_Trimble] #1300637 10/12/12 08:27 PM 10/12/12 08:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 738 OK D David_Trimble OP super stock
David_Trimble OP super stock D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 738 OK	Well, I dremeled down the eroded area with a wire wheel brush and it looks better (i guess short of replacing the carb it's going to be the best it'll ever get ). So I started reassembling the carb, but in checking over the JB on the venturis I noticed that it's still slightly tacky. I would've thought it'd cure by now- or is that normal for JB? If worse comes to worse I could soak a venturi overnight in gasoline and see what happens.... '69 Dodge Charger R/T

Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question [Re: David_Trimble] #1300638 10/12/12 09:00 PM 10/12/12 09:00 PM
Joined: May 2003 Posts: 15,487 Florida S scratchnfotraction I Live Here
scratchnfotraction I Live Here S Joined: May 2003 Posts: 15,487 Florida	yea dont sweat it,I have run much worse looking carbs than that one. the JB weld can take more time to cure depending on mixture and weather. JBquik is the fast set one that needs to be worked asap before it set up in 5-8 mins. I prefer this kind but both will work once cured. I have put q-jets back together with it still a little soft but never had any trouble later.

Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question [Re: David_Trimble] #1300639 10/12/12 11:59 PM 10/12/12 11:59 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska	Quote: but in checking over the JB on the venturis I noticed that it's still slightly tacky. If worse comes to worse I could soak a venturi overnight in gasoline and see what happens.... Dont put it in gas to check it, put it in the wifes oven to cure it live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question [Re: RapidRobert] #1300640 10/13/12 12:10 PM 10/13/12 12:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 738 OK D David_Trimble OP super stock
David_Trimble OP super stock D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 738 OK	Quote: Quote: but in checking over the JB on the venturis I noticed that it's still slightly tacky. If worse comes to worse I could soak a venturi overnight in gasoline and see what happens.... Dont put it in gas to check it, put it in the wifes oven to cure it Actually come to think of it, we have a old toaster oven that my wife got at a garage sale for crafting that would be ideal for that. I take it just use the 'warm' setting for a hour or 2 should do it? '69 Dodge Charger R/T

Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question [Re: David_Trimble] #1300641 10/13/12 02:15 PM 10/13/12 02:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska	Quote: I take it just use the 'warm' setting for a hour or 2 should do it? maybe a bit above warm & go till it's rock hard live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question [Re: RapidRobert] #1300642 10/13/12 08:45 PM 10/13/12 08:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 738 OK D David_Trimble OP super stock
David_Trimble OP super stock D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 738 OK	I let the venturis go in the toaster oven for about 3 hours. During that time the 'tackyness' gradually went away. Took them out and gave them time to cool- now the JB is just as hard as the metal. Everything had been cleaned up so all there was left to do was reassemble the carb. Once I did that though I followed the instructions on how to adjust everything back to specs and there's something that doesn't seem right. On the step where you calibrate when the secondaries open up (and this was waaaaayyy off on my carb), when all was said and done I found that my secondaries will open when the primaries are about 3/4 open. If I recall correctly I think this is right for most 4bbl carbs - but when I manually open the primaries all the way I notice the secondaries only open about 3/4 of the way - maybe a little more. Is this correct? It seems to me that the secondaries should be almost as open as the primaries? '69 Dodge Charger R/T

Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question [Re: David_Trimble] #1300643 10/14/12 01:46 PM 10/14/12 01:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 738 OK D David_Trimble OP super stock
David_Trimble OP super stock D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 738 OK	Quote: On the step where you calibrate when the secondaries open up (and this was waaaaayyy off on my carb), when all was said and done I found that my secondaries will open when the primaries are about 3/4 open. If I recall correctly I think this is right for most 4bbl carbs - but when I manually open the primaries all the way I notice the secondaries only open about 3/4 of the way - maybe a little more. Is this correct? It seems to me that the secondaries should be almost as open as the primaries? Anyone want to take a shot at this? I'm ready to reinstall the carb, but I'd rather get this question answered first... '69 Dodge Charger R/T

Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question [Re: David_Trimble] #1300644 10/14/12 03:31 PM 10/14/12 03:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 738 OK D David_Trimble OP super stock
David_Trimble OP super stock D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 738 OK	Well I figured my above question can wait, so I went ahead and reinstalled the carb, started the car, warmed it up and adjusted the initial timing to 20deg. But at 750rpm I was still pulling almost 15"Hg from the ported vacuum. If I dropped the RPMs to 500 then the reading on the ported vacuum would drop to almost 0, but as soon as I started increasing the RPMs, so did the vacuum... I could increase my initial advance past 20, but I'm not sure if it'll do me any good at this point. ON the good side, the stumbling/stuttering on acceleration is now completely gone. '69 Dodge Charger R/T

Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question [Re: David_Trimble] #1300645 10/14/12 04:09 PM 10/14/12 04:09 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska	Success! I'd think you'd want the secondary blades vertical at WOT for max flow. At 15 deg initial sure doesn't sound like retarded timing is opening the blades to far past a "square". With adequate initial (like we have here) I've never seen that problem. I'm wondering if it's blade/slot wrong phasing if the transition slot was machined wrong but that seems like a stretch & I'm a firm believer in K.I.S.S. but also the secondary link is bent wrong for it not to be wide open so... Wish I had my eddy that I just let go so I could check it out. If you need a 750 rpm idle & will have vacuum you may likely have to tune it starting with using manifold instead of ported vacuum to set your initial then cap it to set the total (slots) then mix/match springs staying just under pinging at WOT live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question [Re: RapidRobert] #1300646 10/14/12 04:28 PM 10/14/12 04:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 738 OK D David_Trimble OP super stock
David_Trimble OP super stock D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 738 OK	Quote: Success! I'd think you'd want the secondary blades vertical at WOT for max flow. At 15 deg initial sure doesn't sound like retarded timing is opening the blades to far past a "square". With adequate initial (like we have here) I've never seen that problem. I'm wondering if it's blade/slot wrong phasing if the transition slot was machined wrong but that seems like a stretch & I'm a firm believer in K.I.S.S. but also the secondary link is bent wrong for it not to be wide open so... Wish I had my eddy that I just let go so I could check it out. If you need a 750 rpm idle & will have vacuum you may likely have to tune it starting with using manifold instead of ported vacuum to set your initial then cap it to set the total (slots) then mix/match springs staying just under pinging at WOT Right, I would think that the secondaries need to be nearly open along with the primaries but I haven't a clue as to how that can be adjusted. So I'm not going to worry about it right now. The transition slot..... I think where the vacuum reading is near 0"Hg I've probably got a 'square' transition slot showing under the throttle. However that throttle position apparently isn't enough to give me 750rpm- at least not without setting my initial timing to some extreme amount. So it sounds like my next step is to instead use the manifold port on the distributor for my initial advance (so I would adjust the initial timing on the distributor WITH the vacuum connected), then adjust the springs in the centrifugal advance to set the max advance? '69 Dodge Charger R/T

Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question [Re: David_Trimble] #1300647 10/14/12 06:56 PM 10/14/12 06:56 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska	You would take off the heavy link that connects the primary and secondary shafts on the passenger side. Yes you'd set initial on the manifold vacuum (drivers) side with the can operational then shorten the slots to get 35 (SB) with the vac can temporarily capped off then mix/match springs staying just under the pinging point @ WOT then plug the can back in & check for pinging in everyday varied driving conditions & if needed turning the allen wrench CCW will give less advance at a given in hg along the cans' slope live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question [Re: RapidRobert] #1300648 10/14/12 07:20 PM 10/14/12 07:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 738 OK D David_Trimble OP super stock
David_Trimble OP super stock D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 738 OK	Quote: You would take off the heavy link that connects the primary and secondary shafts on the passenger side. Yes you'd set initial on the manifold vacuum (drivers) side with the can operational then shorten the slots to get 35 (SB) with the vac can temporarily capped off then mix/match springs staying just under the pinging point @ WOT then plug the can back in & check for pinging in everyday varied driving conditions & if needed turning the allen wrench CCW will give less advance at a given in hg along the cans' slope The secondaries: that short heavy link is what the instructions said would adjust the initial opening point of the secondaries. It sounds like I need to just readjust the link so that the secondaries are nearly open when the primaries are also open, and just not worry about when the secondaries begin to open in relation to the primaries. Timing: Ah, ok- since the distributor's already apparently been set up to max out at 35degrees (hopefully) then I need to just set the initial idle advance while running the can off the manifold vacuum. Then as you say drive it around and figure out if I need to mix/match the centrifual springs. With the new setup, I'm going to back down my initial advance to 15 degrees and we'll just have to see how it goes. Am I understanding that correctly? '69 Dodge Charger R/T

Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question [Re: David_Trimble] #1300649 10/14/12 08:59 PM 10/14/12 08:59 PM
Joined: May 2003 Posts: 15,487 Florida S scratchnfotraction I Live Here
scratchnfotraction I Live Here S Joined: May 2003 Posts: 15,487 Florida	as far as butterflys go,all of mine are like that at WOT . not straight up and down vertical. remeber the engine vac can/will pull it vertical on a WOT blast. holding the carb in hand with the throttle in the WOT position,you should be able to move the 2ndary flys by hand to the vertical position against spring tension. my q-jet open 7/8 of the way on 2ndary flys and works fine,it helps direct airflow thru the venturies pulling fuel up thru the tubes. IMHO,I would not adjust that setting. weighted airdoor is going to regulate just how much air it pulls not the flys. its a street engine not a full on race engine which would throw all those stock sout the window.

Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question [Re: David_Trimble] #1300650 10/14/12 10:25 PM 10/14/12 10:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska	that's why I didn't post immediately on your Q about the secondaries not being vertical as I am not 100% sure & was hoping someone with more knowledge would chime in but I would THINK that they should be wide open at WOT so there's no restriction then the weighted valve regulates the air. Set the initial (on manifold) then set the slots to 35 (vac capped) then mix/match springs FOR WOT then rehookup the vac adv & check it at a steady state high vacuum on the highway at an RPM above where the slots are maxed out AND just under the pinging point in everyday driving under varied vac conditions. I should check the 1406 on my 318 DD & look down & see if the secondaries are wide open at WOT and raise the idle to 750 & see if there's still no vacuum on the pass ported nipple live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question [Re: scratchnfotraction] #1300651 10/14/12 11:12 PM 10/14/12 11:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 738 OK D David_Trimble OP super stock
David_Trimble OP super stock D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 738 OK	Quote: as far as butterflys go,all of mine are like that at WOT . not straight up and down vertical. remeber the engine vac can/will pull it vertical on a WOT blast. holding the carb in hand with the throttle in the WOT position,you should be able to move the 2ndary flys by hand to the vertical position against spring tension. my q-jet open 7/8 of the way on 2ndary flys and works fine,it helps direct airflow thru the venturies pulling fuel up thru the tubes. IMHO,I would not adjust that setting. weighted airdoor is going to regulate just how much air it pulls not the flys. its a street engine not a full on race engine which would throw all those stock sout the window. The secondaries DO swing open fully if I manually move them against the spring to that position from the position the primaries at WOT open them to, so your probably right in that the airflow at that speed would probably force them open all the way. So it sounds like I'm good to just leave them set where the rebuild instructions say it should be. '69 Dodge Charger R/T

Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question [Re: David_Trimble] #1300652 10/14/12 11:33 PM 10/14/12 11:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,436 Blair County,PA 62maxwgn master
62maxwgn master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,436 Blair County,PA	David,if you read the instructions,same as AVS ,both primaries and secondaries should reach full open at the same time,that link is the only adjustment,there is no other adjustment,nothing else is reevant.

Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question [Re: RapidRobert] #1300653 10/14/12 11:38 PM 10/14/12 11:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 738 OK D David_Trimble OP super stock
David_Trimble OP super stock D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 738 OK	Quote: Set the initial (on manifold) then set the slots to 35 (vac capped) then mix/match springs FOR WOT then rehookup the vac adv & check it at a steady state high vacuum on the highway at an RPM above where the slots are maxed out AND just under the pinging point in everyday driving under varied vac conditions. I should check the 1406 on my 318 DD & look down & see if the secondaries are wide open at WOT and raise the idle to 750 & see if there's still no vacuum on the pass ported nipple Gotcha. I need to work on the brakes next so it might be a while before I can get it on the road to try out, though. If you find out that you getting something other than little to no vacuum on the ported vacuum when you bring up the RPMs then that might make some sense- I know if I drop my RPMs down to.... I'm thinking 650rpm... then the vacuum drops to below 10"Hg. Now if I understand how the vaccum can works on the distributor though, if it's expecting (and had been calibrated for) a certain amount of vacuum to begin with then I might be ok? I just had another thought.... I think it's a long shot but the vacuum gauge I've been using is fairly old and may've gone out of adjustment. I'm going to see tomorrow if I can't rent (or buy if I have to) a gauge just to check to make sure I'm really getting valid readings. '69 Dodge Charger R/T

Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question [Re: David_Trimble] #1300654 10/16/12 08:04 PM 10/16/12 08:04 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,040 Lincoln Nebraska	I checked my 1406 as installed on a bone stock '83 318 (exc for carb/streetmaster intake/dist tweaking) and my normal idle is ~600 and when I turned the idle speed screw in 1 exact turn (starting from just closed) the idle speed went up to 720 and no vacuum out of the pass (ported) port. then I cranked it up higher and ported did not start to show vacuum untill ~900 ish rpm and at 2 full turns in I was up to 1300 rpm and showing 1&1/2" vacuum. I run 18 deg of initial at ~600 rpm EDIT Oh I checked the throttle and the link did not start to open the secondaries until I was pretty close to WOT and it only opened them a very little bit . At that point it did take very little finger pressure to open them up all the way so I guess airflow opens the secondaries the rest of the way & also opens the counterweighted air valve above it Last edited by RapidRobert; 10/16/12 09:13 PM. live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question [Re: RapidRobert] #1300655 10/18/12 10:27 PM 10/18/12 10:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 738 OK D David_Trimble OP super stock
David_Trimble OP super stock D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 738 OK	Quote: I checked my 1406 as installed on a bone stock '83 318 (exc for carb/streetmaster intake/dist tweaking) and my normal idle is ~600 and when I turned the idle speed screw in 1 exact turn (starting from just closed) the idle speed went up to 720 and no vacuum out of the pass (ported) port. then I cranked it up higher and ported did not start to show vacuum untill ~900 ish rpm and at 2 full turns in I was up to 1300 rpm and showing 1&1/2" vacuum. I run 18 deg of initial at ~600 rpm EDIT Oh I checked the throttle and the link did not start to open the secondaries until I was pretty close to WOT and it only opened them a very little bit . At that point it did take very little finger pressure to open them up all the way so I guess airflow opens the secondaries the rest of the way & also opens the counterweighted air valve above it Hmm...... well I'm not sure what to make of this as far as my 1405 goes, other than conclude that your idea about the transfer slot possibly being incorrectly milled may not be that far off the mark Oh one thing- you're running a aftermarket intake manifold, I'm running the stock cast-iron 1969 intake. I don't know if that might have anything to do with it, I'm pointing it out just in case it does.... As far as the secondaries go, then it sounds like they're ok and I actually do have them adjusted correctly. I haven't gotten a chance yet to check my theory on my vacuum gauge possibly being off. I still think this might be a long shot but since I'm running out of possibilities other than a faulty carb it'd be worth checking out. Unfortunately I won't be able to get to that until early next week. Edit- btw Robert thanks for taking the time to check out your carb. If anyone else is reading this that owns a Edelbrock Performer and wouldn't mind slapping a vacuum gauge on their ported vacuum for a reading at idle, I'd certainly appreciate it. Last edited by David_Trimble; 10/18/12 10:29 PM. '69 Dodge Charger R/T

Re: Edelbrock accelerator pump adjustment question [Re: David_Trimble] #1300656 10/19/12 01:02 AM 10/19/12 01:02 AM
Joined: May 2003 Posts: 15,487 Florida S scratchnfotraction I Live Here
scratchnfotraction I Live Here S Joined: May 2003 Posts: 15,487 Florida	I can do that for you. I have a BB with a 600 carb dialed in for a 650 idle. I set my timeing and carb with the vac gauge along with the light for checking what it likes. it is dialed in on mine,idle at 650 and stomp it to floor and it goes right to WOT. no bog. just I do the q-jet on the SB the same way,timeing light with vac gauge,dials it right in..i did have to tighten the back airdoor on the q-jet to fix the bog while tuning. it idles 650 and goes right to WOT makes the q-jet sound and drinks gas. with my old vac gauge i dont focus on the numbers so much. just watch it to see it reach its peak vac point and see how much I move it down from there and back up to peak. the old trick is to get the highest vac reading and back down 1 full Hg and try it to see if it likes that. just keep repeting and reseting curb idle,air mixture screws,timeing till you find what it likes. find the base and make notes from there..keep track of timing settings as you tune. I have mine set for good daily driving on the SB, but add some 91 gas.bump 4 more degrees of timeing and it picks up power without pinging. it will ping on the 87 gas, so i back it down 4 degrees to my base line setting. IMHO,what it likes will not be the specs in the FSM book. Last edited by scratchnfotraction; 10/19/12 01:17 AM.

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