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`70 Road Runner 440-6bbl keeps konking out! #1286610
08/16/12 09:48 PM
08/16/12 09:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,838
Detroit, Michigan, USA!
peelerboy Offline OP
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peelerboy  Offline OP
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Detroit, Michigan, USA!
Okay, guys... here's the deal: My buddy has a very nicely restored 1970 Road Runner, 440-6bbl, 4spd, all done to stock trim and specifications. (original dual point distributor and everything)

It just recently starting "acting up" whereas the car suddenly dies. It could be idling at a stoplight, driving down the road at 40mph, doesn't matter. The car will suddenly and inexplicably konk out and cease to run. When this occurs, the car still has electrical power. Such that, the starter will crank, the lights continue to be lit, horn works, etc.

When you try to restart it, it will catch and sometimes it'll run for 5 minutes...maybe 5 hours...maybe only 5 seconds before it quits again. It's as though someone has turned off a lightswitch on the ignition and it's done. We've checked the spark, and it has it. We double checked the fuel (even thought it isn't puttering out like it's running out of gas), and gas is flowing freely in the center carb when you pump it. It's just totally random and intermittent.

We've replaced the ballast resistor a few times (with both new and used pieces), checked all the wiring (brand new harnesses everywhere), checked all the connections on the wires including at the bulkhead connector, even swapped out the condensor on the distrib with a new piece. Nothing is affecting the random shut downs.

We're at a loss. I'm sure we're looking right past whatever the problem is... hiding in plain sight right in front of us, but we don't know what it could be.

Suggestions?... please?

Thanks in advance!

Re: `70 Road Runner 440-6bbl keeps konking out! [Re: peelerboy] #1286611
08/16/12 10:02 PM
08/16/12 10:02 PM
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Posts: 4,154
bethlehem pa
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mikemee1331 Offline
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bethlehem pa
when it won't run do you have spark out of the coil? i'm guessing you don't. what condition are the points in?

Re: `70 Road Runner 440-6bbl keeps konking out! [Re: peelerboy] #1286612
08/16/12 10:05 PM
08/16/12 10:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,435
So Cal
Sinitro Offline
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So Cal
Check/kleen the bulkhead connections..
Unplug each, wire brush any oxidation, titen the female crimp connector and coat with dialectric grease and reinstall...


Just my $0.02...

Re: `70 Road Runner 440-6bbl keeps konking out! [Re: mikemee1331] #1286613
08/16/12 10:06 PM
08/16/12 10:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,838
Detroit, Michigan, USA!
peelerboy Offline OP
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peelerboy  Offline OP
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Quote:

when it won't run do you have spark out of the coil? i'm guessing you don't. what condition are the points in?




The points are nice and meaty and gapped correctly. I only checked for spark (at the coil) one of the times it did this and yes... it had spark. But like I said, the condition is intermittent. So, couldn't the spark return just long enough for me to check it, then fail shortly thereafter? It totally acts like ignition, though. It's just a clean cut-off to power.

Re: `70 Road Runner 440-6bbl keeps konking out! [Re: peelerboy] #1286614
08/16/12 10:42 PM
08/16/12 10:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
62maxwgn Offline
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62maxwgn  Offline
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Blair County,PA
Go to the post above your last post and do what he said!

Re: `70 Road Runner 440-6bbl keeps konking out! [Re: Sinitro] #1286615
08/16/12 11:18 PM
08/16/12 11:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,838
Detroit, Michigan, USA!
peelerboy Offline OP
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peelerboy  Offline OP
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Quote:

Go to the post above your last post and do what he said!




That's too weird! After my second post, I refreshed the page and did NOT see it! When I refreshed it just a moment ago, I saw your post and thought, "What's he talking about?!" Low & behold...there WAS another post! Ha! Thanks for the heads up!!

Quote:

Check/kleen the bulkhead connections..
Unplug each, wire brush any oxidation, titen the crimp conector and coat with dialectric grease and reinstall...


Juts my $0.02...




Good suggestion. Gonna' do it tomorrow for sure. Thanks!

And I'm going to try and catch the coil red-handed with no spark a couple more times, too.

Re: `70 Road Runner 440-6bbl keeps konking out! [Re: peelerboy] #1286616
08/16/12 11:24 PM
08/16/12 11:24 PM
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Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
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Lincoln Nebraska
This is a tough one . I'd jumper from the batt positive post to the ballast & from the ballast to the coil positive primary terminal & see if it'll act up. This'll take all of the ign1 (run) circuit out of the picture


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: `70 Road Runner 440-6bbl keeps konking out! [Re: RapidRobert] #1286617
08/17/12 01:26 AM
08/17/12 01:26 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,908
Nebraska
4
4406bbl Offline
top fuel
4406bbl  Offline
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Nebraska
I just fixed a 6bbl cuda for a guy and it was the aftermarket coil overheating, he bought it at NAPA and it was a Ford coil, did the exact same thing as yours.

Re: `70 Road Runner 440-6bbl keeps konking out! [Re: peelerboy] #1286618
08/17/12 01:37 AM
08/17/12 01:37 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,688
Marlboro, NY, USA
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Rick_Ehrenberg Offline
top fuel
Rick_Ehrenberg  Offline
top fuel
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Marlboro, NY, USA
One thing nobody remembers, 'cause you're all too young: Breaker point Kettering ignition requires a capacitor (condenser) to keep the points from arcing to hell in 10 miles. It wasn't uncommon for them to short out when hot, then "heal" as they cooled off.

Rick

Re: `70 Road Runner 440-6bbl keeps konking out! [Re: Rick_Ehrenberg] #1286619
08/17/12 09:12 AM
08/17/12 09:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,540
Motor City
6
6PKRTSE Offline
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Motor City
I had the same thing happen on my red 70' Sixpack Charger. It would just die whenever it wanted to. Most of the time when it was hot (at running temp). It turned out to be the parts store coil over heating. I bought a MSD blaster 2 coil & painted it black. That lasted several years but eventally started doing it again. I am back to another parts store coil & all has been fine for several more years.
I think it has something to do with the location of the coil in the factory bracket that causes it to over heat over time????? My 440 4 BBL cars never do this with the coil mounted further up front hanging off of the front of the intake manifold.


1963 Belvedere 440 Max Wedge Tribute
1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack
1970 Challenger R/T, 528 Hemi
1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL
1970 Plymouth Road Runner 383
1974 Chrysler New Yorker 440
1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4
2004 3500 Dually Cummins 4x4
2012 Challenger R/T Classic.
Re: `70 Road Runner 440-6bbl keeps konking out! [Re: 6PKRTSE] #1286620
08/17/12 09:18 AM
08/17/12 09:18 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
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Brookeville, Md
Could be the coil... when it shuts off get out and feel how hot it is. Of course it wouldn't be a bad idea to re-check all your grounds too.


[IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/pui5j.jpg[/IMG]
Coming soon!!!!
Re: `70 Road Runner 440-6bbl keeps konking out! [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1286621
08/17/12 09:50 AM
08/17/12 09:50 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,997
Long Island, NY
shakerjoe Offline
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my friend had the exact same thing happening, couldn't figure it out - this was on a freshly restored "everything" 440-6 70 Challenger R/T, and I mean everthing...so it stalls one day while we're out, I'm looking it over, and I notice the coil is kind of "wet" looking - oily residue around the top - it was leaking and heating up and brreaking down I figured, swapped for a new coil and hasn't happened since - not leaking either. I also had the same problem, like someone just reached in my window and shut the ignition off while doing 60 or idling, spoke to a friend at the dealer where I picked up my MP electronic ignition kit and he told me the orange boxes were possible subject to heat soak - to try a chrome box - that was about 8 years ago - never happened again after I swapped to the chrome from orange...my

Last edited by shakerjoe; 08/17/12 04:29 PM.
Re: `70 Road Runner 440-6bbl keeps konking out! [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1286622
08/17/12 09:54 AM
08/17/12 09:54 AM
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Posts: 144
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Tony440 Offline
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Tony440  Offline
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I've been having the same issue with my 440 six pack. It will stall when it's at operating temp. It will always restart but die out again when it's put back in drive. When it sits and cools of it will be ok. I have an Accel super stock 8140C coil that's about 10 years old. It's getting real hot to the touch. I ohmed out the primary and secondary windings and found them to be within spec.. I removed it yesterday to replace it and found it was leaking oil. I havn't driven it yet but I think this is could be the issue. So you may want to look at your coil as well.

Re: `70 Road Runner 440-6bbl keeps konking out! [Re: Tony440] #1286623
08/17/12 10:13 AM
08/17/12 10:13 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,838
Detroit, Michigan, USA!
peelerboy Offline OP
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peelerboy  Offline OP
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Great, great info you guys! I still have yet to check out the connections at the bulkhead to rule that out... but it sure sounds like a lot of you have experienced difficulties with the coil. That's such an easy check/swap that I might try that first.

Oh, and yes I'm aware of some of the Mopar ignition boxes failing (good suggestion as well!), but this car is equipped with a totally factory correct ignition. (points)

Thanks again guys, and I'll keep you posted!

Dale

Re: `70 Road Runner 440-6bbl keeps konking out! [Re: peelerboy] #1286624
08/17/12 10:28 AM
08/17/12 10:28 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 323
Endicott, NY, USA
crazyjjk Offline
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Endicott, NY, USA
still dont forget the points condenser. They have a tendency of get hot and shorting also.

Re: `70 Road Runner 440-6bbl keeps konking out! [Re: crazyjjk] #1286625
08/17/12 11:51 AM
08/17/12 11:51 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,838
Detroit, Michigan, USA!
peelerboy Offline OP
master
peelerboy  Offline OP
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Quote:

still dont forget the points condenser. They have a tendency of get hot and shorting also.




Thanks!...but we replaced that with a brand new one and didn't make a difference. Worth mentioning, though!

Re: `70 Road Runner 440-6bbl keeps konking out! [Re: peelerboy] #1286626
08/17/12 01:48 PM
08/17/12 01:48 PM
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Posts: 7,595
TX , NJ , FL
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WINGCARS_6970 Offline
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TX , NJ , FL
Check ballast resitor and connection and amp meter connection.Steering column to wiring harness connection prone trouble area


1969 Daytona 440 L9B410772 1970 Coronet 500 383 Presently owned 1970 Superbird 440 U 166242 1970 Superbird 440 U 174597 1970 Superbird 440-6 V 179697 1970 Coronet RT 440 U 224126 1968 Road Runner 426 J 134509 1970 Daytona Replica 318 G 178701
Re: `70 Road Runner 440-6bbl keeps konking out! [Re: shakerjoe] #1286627
08/17/12 02:51 PM
08/17/12 02:51 PM
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Posts: 1,152
Colorado
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CuriousYella70 Offline
super stock
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Colorado
Quote:

my friend had the exact same thing happening, couldn't figure it out - this was on a freshly restored "everything" 440-6 70 Challenger R/T, and I mean everthing...so it stalls one day while we're out, I'm looking it over, and I notice the coil is kind of "wet" looking - oily residue around the top - it was leaking and heating up and brreaking down I figured, swapped for a new coil and hasn't happened since - not leaking either. I also had the same problem, like someone just reached in my window and shut the ignition off while doing 60 or idling, spoke to a friend at the dealer where I picked up my MP electronic ignition kit and he told me the orange boxes were possible subject to heat soak - to try a chrome box - that was about 8 years ago - never happened again after I swapped chrome for orange...my




I think shakerjoe hit the nail on the head with the coil solution. I know it's not the same as the RoadRunner but my old Dakota did the same exact thing your RoadRunner is doing. It would cut off and then sometimes you couldn't get it to start or sometimes it would start right back up, would always cut all power immediately. Turns out, the oil inside the coil had slowly leaked out to where it would cut all power whenever i turned, was sitting at a light, etc. - it would always lose connection. I say try a new coil and see if that doesn't solve your problem right away!

Re: `70 Road Runner 440-6bbl keeps konking out! [Re: CuriousYella70] #1286628
08/18/12 01:53 AM
08/18/12 01:53 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,908
Nebraska
4
4406bbl Offline
top fuel
4406bbl  Offline
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Posts: 1,908
Nebraska
4406bbls without the heat crossover blocked will overheat the coil,one of the bracket bolts goes in the head right next to the heat crossover, just my opinion that heat transfers through the bracket to the coil. I relocated a coil and control box to a location inside the nosecone of a Superbird that was a particular pain in the ass for stalling, fixed all the problems. I do not remember having all these problems with oem parts when these cars were new but who knows whats going on.

Re: `70 Road Runner 440-6bbl keeps konking out! [Re: 4406bbl] #1286629
08/18/12 03:30 AM
08/18/12 03:30 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 335
indiana
marks69 Offline
enthusiast
marks69  Offline
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Posts: 335
indiana
check the ignition switch.

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