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Stroker or forced induction?
#1270454
07/19/12 03:54 PM
07/19/12 03:54 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,305
Lakewood, Colorado
herkamer
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,305
Lakewood, Colorado
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Thinking about how I can hop up my Dakota. Right now it's a stock 120k mile 360 with Edelbrock tubular headers and a full 3" exhaust. Runs good for what it is, but at 5200' it's lacking what I think it could do. I have an SCT tuner at my disposal, but no tunes to load. I had planned on going with their Pro-Tuner package so I can tune myself without relying on a dealer to build tunes.
Been pondering a single or twin turbo system, but also have recently been thinking about going with a 408/426 SB setup instead. Still has to pass the communist emissions test here. Luckily I can fast pass by hitting the roadside stations.
What say you? Displacement or forced induction and why.
Matt
69 Dart Swinger 340
83 W350, Megasquirted with 46RH
Old news: 72 Demon street/race mobile
Latest: 70 Duster backhalf car
and even more
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Re: Stroker or forced induction?
[Re: herkamer]
#1270455
07/19/12 04:07 PM
07/19/12 04:07 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 492
South Jersey, NJ
DragDart360
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 492
South Jersey, NJ
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At your alt. I would consider a stroker with a supercharger. I don't care for turbos in a street combo. Would also make it easier to pass emissions.
70 Dart Swinger, 2850 lbs
SB 408, Bullet roller 264/268 @50 .636 SSDS stage 2 Edelbrock heads, 1 7/8 Headmans, 1050 dominator by Dom, 9.867 @ 133
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Re: Stroker or forced induction?
[Re: herkamer]
#1270458
07/19/12 05:52 PM
07/19/12 05:52 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Its gonna cost either way you go but myself I would go turbo due to it not robbing HP to drive a blower... strokers are nice and simple but it'll NEVER make the power a pressurized engine will 
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Re: Stroker or forced induction?
[Re: Triple Threat]
#1270459
07/19/12 05:54 PM
07/19/12 05:54 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,414
Toronto
mshred
master
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master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,414
Toronto
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Quote:
Turbo(s) without a doubt. And I have a stroker.
This!
This is what I should have done with my 360 last year when I bent a valve...it already had the compression for it, coulda strapped on a turbo, made gobs of power with a safe tune, and ran a streetable gear to cruise the thing anywhere.
Sure those stock cast pistons aren't the best, but they will work for now at lower boost levels- when you want more, yank it and do the bottom end, but even at lower boost levels you should be fine and still have a TON of fun
thats my 
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Re: Stroker or forced induction?
[Re: mshred]
#1270460
07/19/12 06:17 PM
07/19/12 06:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,831
N.E. Ohio
6bblFLASH
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,831
N.E. Ohio
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Once you have boost,,,,you`ll want MORE  My way of looking at adding a blower or turbo is: you can unbolt the parts and put them on another engine or even car. Waste an engine,sell the car swap all the hardware and go. Does`nt take much boost to make a BIG difference. I`m only seeing 5-lbs,man what a performance gain. Well over a second in a heavy car and a stock motor. 
70` Cuda`,440 6BBL Jerico,Dana 4.56 Still on 93 Pump Gas
9.87 @ 136/1.31-60ft.`09 Mopar Nationals PASSON PERFORMANCE "Stick-Shift" Champ!
2013 StickShift Challenge Winner@ Mopar Nationals!
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Re: Stroker or forced induction?
[Re: Crizila]
#1270463
07/19/12 08:50 PM
07/19/12 08:50 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,646
Plymouth Meeting, PA
bigtimeauto
Trophy Winner
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Trophy Winner
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,646
Plymouth Meeting, PA
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biggest bore you can get and just enough stroke, then the blower. Turbos are ok but nothing is like the instant boost of a blower.
BB, TT5,Procharged 3300lb Street Car 4.79/154
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Re: Stroker or forced induction?
[Re: JackGTX440]
#1270465
07/20/12 09:25 AM
07/20/12 09:25 AM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,564
St. Clair Shores, Michigan
bigsbigelow
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,564
St. Clair Shores, Michigan
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Quote:
Quote:
Pick one to start with and then build with future upgrades in mind, example 1: build stroker now with low or lowish comp so you can turbo later example 2: turbo now but with a turbo large enough to support a stroker bottom end for a future upgrade.
Never in a million years would you need to stroke it with the turbo. For 800ish and less horsepower, more cubes would just make turbo selection harder. For 400 cubes, you'd want probably at least a 94mm turbine. This puts you in the 1000+ hp turbo range.
I am just throwing ideas out there. No need to single some one out just to shoot down their two cents. If I wanted to be put down I would just have a conversation with the "Vice Pres" at my job. What if the OP eventually wants 1,000 hp?
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Re: Stroker or forced induction?
[Re: herkamer]
#1270467
07/20/12 10:26 AM
07/20/12 10:26 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
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Quote:
Thinking about how I can hop up my Dakota. Right now it's a stock 120k mile 360 with Edelbrock tubular headers and a full 3" exhaust. Runs good for what it is, but at 5200' it's lacking what I think it could do. I have an SCT tuner at my disposal, but no tunes to load. I had planned on going with their Pro-Tuner package so I can tune myself without relying on a dealer to build tunes.
Been pondering a single or twin turbo system, but also have recently been thinking about going with a 408/426 SB setup instead. Still has to pass the communist emissions test here. Luckily I can fast pass by hitting the roadside stations.
What say you? Displacement or forced induction and why.
You really need to start out with a plan ( blank sheet of paper) before you can answer your questions. First you need to look at what you want in the end - drag car, street car, combo? How much $ do you have to spend? How much HP do you want to make? How fast do you want to go? Cost of "supporting cast" ( rollbar, drivetrain, etc). Reliability / maintenance fits in there also. Answering some of those questions will lead you to YOUR correct path. BTW, there are considerable foundation differences between building a NA motor and a blown motor, so that should be an up-front decision. Don't break the bank and have fun 
Fastest 300
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Re: Stroker or forced induction?
[Re: herkamer]
#1270468
07/20/12 10:37 AM
07/20/12 10:37 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,985
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,985
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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I put a twin screw on a 4.6 Mustang, 7 psi. All I can say is Wow! Just like the motor went from 281 to 425 cubes. Torque is right there, starting at 2,000 rpm where the bypass shuts. Your converter will also stall a bit higher, negating the need for a different one. I went to the track and ran a 12.42 on STOCK rubber and everything else, at 115mph. Gained 15 mph and 1 second ET. With slicks the car would probably run very high elevens on a good day.
Your truck would show the same percent gain with 7 psi.
Given your altitude, you could also get more aggressive with boost. Just don't go over a recommended amount.
Last edited by gregsdart; 07/20/12 10:39 AM.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: Stroker or forced induction?
[Re: gregsdart]
#1270469
07/20/12 11:06 AM
07/20/12 11:06 AM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,305
Lakewood, Colorado
herkamer
OP
pro stock
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OP
pro stock
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,305
Lakewood, Colorado
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This is all part of the planning. Wanted to feel out what others have done. I have a turbo car so I know the potential. I'm also working on a 500" stroker for my convertible so I will have both to compare even though this would more of an apples/oranges comparision.
It's quite obvious that it can go way overboard on either type of build with parts. Cams, heads, intakes, etc etc. I've been leaning turbo for quite awhile because of a couple things:
1. Parts can be sourced relatively cheaply.
2. You can run boost on a stock engine and still maintain reliability. Add parts as needed.
3. Once installed you can dial it up to bigger power levels provided the hardware will support it.
My goal is to have a fun street vehicle that will actually get out of it's own way. 500 horse would most definitely be fun and easily accomplished. And it realistically could be done on the cheap with used parts.
Matt
69 Dart Swinger 340
83 W350, Megasquirted with 46RH
Old news: 72 Demon street/race mobile
Latest: 70 Duster backhalf car
and even more
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Re: Stroker or forced induction?
[Re: herkamer]
#1270470
07/20/12 11:27 AM
07/20/12 11:27 AM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,260
New Mexico
Adobedude
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,260
New Mexico
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You'll need more than a stock Magnum 360 for any power adder, especially with 120K on the clock and looking for 500 hp at the crank. 500 RWHP is going to break stock parts that move.
I'd say build a forged 408 with M1 4bbl, 58 TB, Spintech mid length headers Eddy Heads etc... $$$
The SCT is going to be a big learning curve, not as user friendly as a standalone like a FAST XFI.
FYI, the 426 kit is for NA applications only.
My NA 408 Dakota runs 11.7s at 8600'...But it's strip only. I'll spray it into the 10s later this year, but the engine was built for it.
Check out the Dakota R/T forum for more info.
2001 Dodge Dakota
408 All Motor
11.27 @ 117.83 mph
2017 NM Mopar Challenge Series Champion.
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Re: Stroker or forced induction?
[Re: bigsbigelow]
#1270472
07/20/12 10:53 PM
07/20/12 10:53 PM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 453
Holly, MI
JackGTX440
mopar
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mopar
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 453
Holly, MI
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Quote:
I am just throwing ideas out there. No need to single some one out just to shoot down their two cents. If I wanted to be put down I would just have a conversation with the "Vice Pres" at my job. What if the OP eventually wants 1,000 hp?
Not singling out, just trying to educate a little and help out the OP. He's not looking for 1000hp. He said he had to pass the communist emissions. If he stroked it, the turbo that would be an efficient, well matched turbo for those cubes would end up making power levels that will require all forged lower end, aftermarket block, billet main caps, etc... That is a lot of coin...
You could put together a kick ass 500 rwhp street turbo build using a lot of very much stock parts, purrs like a kitten and do it relatively easy and affordable. He already has the exhaust manifolds that most turbo small block guys use up to like 750hp (the hard part of the hot side is already done), and already has EFI.
If that were my engine, all I'd do is change cam, rods, pistons, ARP fasteners, 4150 style single plane EFI intake and throttle body, stainless valves, and possibly roller tip rockers. Could run stock manifolds with two used HX35's off of a Cummins. It would be a total sleeper street ripper, with a tall gear and tight convertor. Could also run something like an affordable MP70 single turbo.
Jack Irons Jr.
'67 GTX, turbo 6.1 HEMI
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