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Cam choices pros and cons for different cam types #1267653
07/14/12 05:44 AM
07/14/12 05:44 AM
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torqueaddict Offline OP
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I know there are like 4 different types of cams but know very little other than that I hear hydraulic rollers are very powerful and expensive. Is one type better for a street stroker or is t all preference?

Re: Cam choices pros and cons for different cam types [Re: torqueaddict] #1267654
07/14/12 12:57 PM
07/14/12 12:57 PM
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Quote:

I know there are like 4 different types of cams but know very little other than that I hear hydraulic rollers are very powerful and expensive. Is one type better for a street stroker or is t all preference?


It's all preference and who you listen to I've used all four types in different motors over the years, if you decide to use a flat tappet, solid or hydraulic non roller, make sure and use a zinc additive in the oil every time you change oil. You also need to break those type of cams and lifters in correctly


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Cam choices pros and cons for different cam types [Re: Cab_Burge] #1267655
07/14/12 01:25 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

I know there are like 4 different types of cams but know very little other than that I hear hydraulic rollers are very powerful and expensive. Is one type better for a street stroker or is t all preference?


It's all preference and who you listen to I've used all four types in different motors over the years, if you decide to use a flat tappet, solid or hydraulic non roller, make sure and use a zinc additive in the oil every time you change oil. You also need to break those type of cams and lifters in correctly





So its not true to say a hydraulic roller makes more power than a flat tappet?

Re: Cam choices pros and cons for different cam types [Re: torqueaddict] #1267656
07/14/12 01:58 PM
07/14/12 01:58 PM
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Quote:

So its not true to say a hydraulic roller makes more power than a flat tappet?




In general, it goes like this in terms of power:
1. Solid Roller
2. Solid Flat-Tappet
3. Hyd Roller
4. Hyd Flat-tappet.

Your choice shouldn't be made though on a generic "what makes better power" choice...your cam should be selected for your components, goals, budget, etc.

For most people, a HYD flat-tappet cam is all you'll ever want or need. It's less expensive, requires less maintenance, plenty reliable, and can make more than enough power for most street and street/strip applications.

I've got a HYD roller simply because I used a magnum engine to start, and a roller cam is what it had.

Roller cams will generally make more power at a given "size" mostly because will a flat-tappet and HYD roller cam might be the same size in duration @ .050, the quicker ramps allowed by the roller allow the roller to be bigger at .100/.150/.200/.300/.400...particularly at the valve lifts where the heads really begin to flow. Throw on top of that that the aggressive ramps allow for more peak lift too...but really, it's what is "greater area under the curve". Basically the valves actuated by a roller cam can stay open higher for longer while still fitting within the same "@ .050" size.

If you're building a true street engine and budget doesn't matter, go with a HYD roller. But for most cases, it's not critically important, especially when cost is factored in.


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Re: Cam choices pros and cons for different cam types [Re: torqueaddict] #1267657
07/14/12 02:18 PM
07/14/12 02:18 PM
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A roller cam with the same specs as a flat tappet should make slightly more power from the reduced friction. Usually the roller cam allows faster ramp rates, and higher valve lift. Because the roller lifters are taller and heavier you will need custom length pushrods and posably stiffer valve springs, but that also depends on the RPM level. A roller cam also needs a way to locate the cam, like a thrust button. The small block wont need a thrust button because the cam plate and timing gear control the front/back cam movement. The down side is cost.
There are some very good flat tappet cams also, some with very aggressive ramp rates. The problem is the oil companies removed the zinc (ZDDP) from the oil because it could cause problems with the oxygen sensors on new cars. You can run an agressive flat tappet cam, but you need to use an oil additive or run "race" oil. Some say diesel oil also works, but it is also being changed quite a bit with the new oil specifications?
Some things that add additional protection to flat tappet cams are Nitriding the cam to make the lobes harder, and the EDM lifters that have a small oil hole on the bottom of the lifter (but I think the EDM is on solid flat tappet lifters, nit sure about hydraulic ones?)

Re: Cam choices pros and cons for different cam types [Re: 451Mopar] #1267658
07/14/12 05:56 PM
07/14/12 05:56 PM
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Anthony....just remember if you use any flat tappet cam ..you gotta use a zinc additive ,especially on break in..then go to synthetic like Royal Purple...etc...and the solid tappet cams will need to be checked for adjustment regularly...

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Re: Cam choices pros and cons for different cam types [Re: dynamite] #1267659
07/14/12 08:13 PM
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Quote:

Anthony....just remember if you use any flat tappet cam ..you gotta use a zinc additive ,especially on break in..then go to synthetic like Royal Purple...etc...and the solid tappet cams will need to be checked for adjustment regularly...





Ok I get that, right now I have a hyd flat tappet for my stroker, would a hydro roller perform better or do I just need a significantly more aggressive cam? I don't really want to over cam my car but don't want to leave to many horses on the table. I know I have to sacrifice in some area but I still would like over 500 horses an 600 torque. I hope my cam isn't to wimpy for that.

Last edited by torqueaddict; 07/14/12 08:30 PM.
Re: Cam choices pros and cons for different cam types [Re: torqueaddict] #1267660
07/14/12 10:34 PM
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Well a hyd roller kit will cost you ..$1100-$1500.with springs ,lifters,push rods and rockers..if you just need a stronger hyd cam ..just the custom grind cam alone should be around $ 175.00..just be sure you have the proper springs to match the cam..all depends on how deep your pockets are..

Re: Cam choices pros and cons for different cam types [Re: dynamite] #1267661
07/14/12 10:49 PM
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Quote:

Well a hyd roller kit will cost you ..$1100-$1500.with springs ,lifters,push rods and rockers..if you just need a stronger hyd cam ..just the custom grind cam alone should be around $ 175.00..just be sure you have the proper springs to match the cam..all depends on how deep your pockets are..






So u think it might be a good idea to return what I have from lunati and get a custom grind cam? I really dont know what to even say what I want. Is there any way you could help me?

Re: Cam choices pros and cons for different cam types [Re: torqueaddict] #1267662
07/15/12 12:01 AM
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Just tell the cam builder everything you have in the motor , the comp ratio, heads, intake ,carb etc,,the type and weight of the car ,,transmission , gear ratio..and how the car will be used .. track only, sometimes ,never, highway driving..etc..I personally like a cam made just for my car and my use.. your call

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Re: Cam choices pros and cons for different cam types [Re: dynamite] #1267663
07/15/12 02:09 AM
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For cost, my Comp XR286HR-10 cam was $333.92,
Hughes Hydraulic Rollers were $354.00, and Isky 8005A valve springs were $149.95. Total = 837.87.

A Comp XE flat tappet cam and lifter kit is $200, so the Hydraulic Roller cam and lifters are about $488 more expensive. The springs I used may be a bit more expensive too? The roller does use the 3-bolt timing set, but the cost of the timing set I used is the same. The roller does need a cam thrust button, Bronze oil pump drive gear, and bronze tip fuel pump pushrod. That's maybe another $100 to $150, so I would guess gound with the roller setup would cost about $600-$650 more than a flat tappet cam? On the other hand, I wiped a Flat tappet cam lobe on my 360, and ended up doing a complete re-hone, re-ring, new bearings, oil pump, gaskets, and a new cam and lifters. That when I found out that the oil specifications changed.

Re: Cam choices pros and cons for different cam types [Re: dynamite] #1267664
07/15/12 03:02 AM
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Quote:

Just tell the cam builder everything you have in the motor , the comp ratio, heads, intake ,carb etc,,the type and weight of the car ,,transmission , gear ratio..and how the car will be used .. track only, sometimes ,never, highway driving..etc..I personally like a cam made just for my car and my use.. your call





I think I might have to give them a call on monday and see what they have to say. It might be beneficial.

Re: Cam choices pros and cons for different cam types [Re: torqueaddict] #1267665
07/15/12 09:25 AM
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Another consideration is the oil pump/distributor drive gear.

The gear on the cam and the gear on the drive are a "wear pair". On a flat tappet, the iron gear on the cam and the steel gear on the shaft wear well together as they have different hardness.

BB roller cams use a steel gear. It doesn't wear well with the steel gear on the shaft... the two gears tear each other up.

The fix is a bronze OP/distributor drive gear. The soft OP drive gear becomes a wear item with life as low as 3-5k miles depending on lots of factors. Besides cost, that's the big downside of a roller in a BB.

Re: Cam choices pros and cons for different cam types [Re: 451Mopar] #1267666
07/15/12 12:34 PM
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Quote:

For cost, my Comp XR286HR-10 cam was $333.92,
Hughes Hydraulic Rollers were $354.00, and Isky 8005A valve springs were $149.95. Total = 837.87.

A Comp XE flat tappet cam and lifter kit is $200, so the Hydraulic Roller cam and lifters are about $488 more expensive. The springs I used may be a bit more expensive too? The roller does use the 3-bolt timing set, but the cost of the timing set I used is the same. The roller does need a cam thrust button, Bronze oil pump drive gear, and bronze tip fuel pump pushrod. That's maybe another $100 to $150, so I would guess gound with the roller setup would cost about $600-$650 more than a flat tappet cam? On the other hand, I wiped a Flat tappet cam lobe on my 360, and ended up doing a complete re-hone, re-ring, new bearings, oil pump, gaskets, and a new cam and lifters. That when I found out that the oil specifications changed.





That sounds a little pricey but maybe worth it. Do hydro rollers have to be adjusted?

Re: Cam choices pros and cons for different cam types [Re: torqueaddict] #1267667
07/15/12 02:46 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

For cost, my Comp XR286HR-10 cam was $333.92,
Hughes Hydraulic Rollers were $354.00, and Isky 8005A valve springs were $149.95. Total = 837.87.

A Comp XE flat tappet cam and lifter kit is $200, so the Hydraulic Roller cam and lifters are about $488 more expensive. The springs I used may be a bit more expensive too? The roller does use the 3-bolt timing set, but the cost of the timing set I used is the same. The roller does need a cam thrust button, Bronze oil pump drive gear, and bronze tip fuel pump pushrod. That's maybe another $100 to $150, so I would guess gound with the roller setup would cost about $600-$650 more than a flat tappet cam? On the other hand, I wiped a Flat tappet cam lobe on my 360, and ended up doing a complete re-hone, re-ring, new bearings, oil pump, gaskets, and a new cam and lifters. That when I found out that the oil specifications changed.





That sounds a little pricey but maybe worth it. Do hydro rollers have to be adjusted?




They are Hydraulic, so you need to set the correct pre-load just like a flat tappet hydraulic. Correct length pushrods are required for either a fixed or adjustable rocker system.

Re: Cam choices pros and cons for different cam types [Re: 451Mopar] #1267668
07/15/12 03:21 PM
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I would go hydraulic roller. I ran a flat tappet hrdraulic and was not happy and ended up going hydraulic roller. Now I am happy. More power and no worries about cam going flat is well worth the extra cost. Hughes hydraulic roller lifters @$350 have made this conversion more affordable.

Re: Cam choices pros and cons for different cam types [Re: 1970sixpak] #1267669
07/15/12 03:38 PM
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I would go hydraulic roller. I ran a flat tappet hrdraulic and was not happy and ended up going hydraulic roller. Now I am happy. More power and no worries about cam going flat is well worth the extra cost. Hughes hydraulic roller lifters @$350 have made this conversion more affordable.





I think I am gonna go hydraulic roller. Now I have to find the right cam and hope lunati will take back the one I have .

Re: Cam choices pros and cons for different cam types [Re: torqueaddict] #1267670
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What about the specs on this cam?What do you guys think?

Intake Valve Lift 1.5
Exhaust Valve Lift 1.5 .555"
.540"

Intake Valve Lift 1.6
Exhaust Valve Lift 1.6 .592"
.576"

Intake Duration at .050"
Exhaust Duration at .050" 246°
252°

Lobe Separation Angle 110º

Intake Opening at .050"
Exhaust Opening at .050" 16° BTC
59° BBC

Intake Closing at .050"
Exhaust Closing at .050" 50° ABC
13° ATC

Min. Suggested Cylinder PSI

Sweet Spot RPM 2000 - 7000

Re: Cam choices pros and cons for different cam types [Re: torqueaddict] #1267671
07/15/12 10:06 PM
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Quote:

What about the specs on this cam?What do you guys think?

Intake Valve Lift 1.5
Exhaust Valve Lift 1.5 .555"
.540"

Intake Valve Lift 1.6
Exhaust Valve Lift 1.6 .592"
.576"

Intake Duration at .050"
Exhaust Duration at .050" 246°
252°

Lobe Separation Angle 110º

Intake Opening at .050"
Exhaust Opening at .050" 16° BTC
59° BBC

Intake Closing at .050"
Exhaust Closing at .050" 50° ABC
13° ATC

Min. Suggested Cylinder PSI

Sweet Spot RPM 2000 - 7000




What type of cam is it, what is the rest of the engine specs, and the application?

Re: Cam choices pros and cons for different cam types [Re: 451Mopar] #1267672
07/15/12 10:29 PM
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It's a hydro roller cam going in a 493 stroker with stealth heads the car is a challenger with a 727 and 323 gears. It's meant to be a street thumper that runs on pumped gas. I want at least 600+ fpt and at least 550+ hp. The compression will be a little over 10.5. What do you think, I want a car that tons of low end to mid range power. Is that descriptive enough or did i miss anything?

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