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Re: ALTERKATION HATED BY MOPAR ACTION??
[Re: TC@HP2]
#1228705
05/08/12 11:37 PM
05/08/12 11:37 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,688
Marlboro, NY, USA
Rick_Ehrenberg
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,688
Marlboro, NY, USA
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Quote:
:
With the RMS, now everything centers around the 4 bolts retaining the K member.
***********
This is no different than stock. With the OEM K frame, all vertical loading is supported by those same four bolts and through the same frame rails. The rear anchor and t-bars only support the twisting motion of the bar, not the vertical displacement.
Actually, that's not quite correct if you analyze it. With a coil spring setup, the jounce loads are taken by the upper spring /shock mount. With T-bars, the majority is taken by the T-bar X-member. This is why the T-bar setup can have a very light forestructure. (Not to mention the super low C/G, reduced unsprung mass, etc.)
Rick
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Re: ALTERKATION HATED BY MOPAR ACTION??
[Re: Rhinodart]
#1228708
05/09/12 12:09 AM
05/09/12 12:09 AM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 186
Middleton, ID
curleysracecars
member
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member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 186
Middleton, ID
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Rick,
Thanks for posting what the magazine contains...all this time and nobody could tell us what was said in the magazine. Rick hits all points on the head, and expresses an honest and true opinion of the product in question. As others have stated, everyone will have their own opinion. At the same time, he is making it clear that this product is not the "holy grail" as alot of people think it is.
Kyle Curley
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Re: ALTERKATION - 3rd dwg and caption
[Re: cudaman1969]
#1228711
05/09/12 03:07 AM
05/09/12 03:07 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,467
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,467
So Cal
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Quote:
Failures? I have heard of the lower control arm bolt (3/4)shearing off just backing up. My friend received gusset plates to weld on as a fix. I agree there is too much stress in that area. Way too much money for what you get. In the race car we put a rack in the k-frame turned the spindles around bent the arms till the bump was right and run it for years and no problems. He just wants to show off his coil overs on the street car, his money.
Glass houses...
Quote:
In the race car we put a rack in the k-frame turned the spindles around bent the arms till the bump was right and run it for years and no problems.
What was your akermann when you flipped the spindles??
Did you heat the steering arms to bend them??
Probably ok for a drag car since you don't turn them or put much side load on them.
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Re: ALTERKATION - 3rd dwg and caption
[Re: autoxcuda]
#1228712
05/09/12 12:45 PM
05/09/12 12:45 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Fixing something that ain't broke
A good way to go broke
Unless you sell the fix
In the race to come up with even more stuff to sell Mopar guys and make $$ just Think what we will see in the future!
We need more guys like AB & E ,repo parts better than the originals etc --Parts to make them back like they were--want a new car?--BUY a new car --Geeez!
To me , everyone aims to MAXIMIZE what they do no matter what it is--fishing? you need 10K worth of Graphite from Bass Pro, Deer hunting, same deal except $50K with truck, 4 wheeler, titanium deer stand etc, Golf? same deal--New RC cars? Same cost as real cars, etc etc
So ..on paper you have the best steering and geometry in the universe on your wizzed up E body but question is--Can ya drive??
Tiger Woods can beat most golfers with a claw hammer etc
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Re: ALTERKATION - 3rd dwg and caption
[Re: patrick]
#1228718
05/09/12 03:12 PM
05/09/12 03:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,467
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,467
So Cal
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Quote:
Just curious, but if torsion bar systems are so great, how come they aren't used anymore?
they are, just on 4wd IFS trucks.....
Expensive... Parts and labor to assemble.
The double A-arm with coil spring center isn't really used much any more either. Although it's used it most forms of racing with outboard spring/shocks.
Torsion bars were used on Porsche 911's until like the 90's.
Torsion bars are used in Sprint car racing currently.
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Re: ALTERKATION - 3rd dwg and caption
[Re: A57_RT ]
#1228720
05/09/12 03:37 PM
05/09/12 03:37 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
The first and last paragraph say it the best concerning our torsion bar system.
Yes this is from a 76 mag road test but ive confirmed the last paragraph from some contacts within chrysler.....
Again the F body was a front office deal, and it may seem since 1957 it had its shortcomings....you be the judge.
I don't think anyone is defending the Aspen/Volare transverse torsion bar setup, or thinks it works anywhere near as well as the longitudinal bar setup. 
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Re: ALTERKATION - 3rd dwg and caption
#1228721
05/09/12 03:45 PM
05/09/12 03:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 323
A57_RT
Parts Problem
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Parts Problem
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 323
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But the first paragraph states the org t bar setup from 1957 that was used in the late 60-s early 70-s was 1957 Tech??? I wont  any more on this, I just wonder if the supporters of the T bar system does not think tech hasnt came a long way since 57. Sorta like the new style of trucks, maybe in the 90-s, trucks that had used the same front end since the early 70-s...excuse me if im a bit off on the truck dates. It seems in 76, some were not impressed with the org design as well...Sounds like some would of rather seen coils as the new setup.
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Re: ALTERKATION - 3rd dwg and caption
[Re: A57_RT ]
#1228723
05/09/12 04:02 PM
05/09/12 04:02 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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OK, a big block mopar engine is 1958 tech, and the SBM is an update of 1956 tech. We're all living in the past.
I think we can all agree that the disadvantages of the Mopar longitudinal torsion bar setup include (1) less room for a high performance exhaust, (2) not enough adjustability in factory stock form to take full advantage of modern tire technology, and (3) not easy to adapt rack and pinion steering. Don't think the basic geometry can be faulted, though. And there are some advantages to torsion bars vs. coils or whatever, and modern upgrades can make it all work very well.
Which doesn't have too much to do with whether or not the Alterkation setup is really suited for or safe for a true street-driven vehicle - a matter which I don't pretend to be competent to judge. Interesting discussion, though.
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Re: ALTERKATION - 3rd dwg and caption
#1228724
05/09/12 04:17 PM
05/09/12 04:17 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
DPelletier
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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Quote:
OK, a big block mopar engine is 1958 tech, and the SBM is an update of 1956 tech. We're all living in the past.
I think we can all agree that the disadvantages of the Mopar longitudinal torsion bar setup include (1) less room for a high performance exhaust, (2) not enough adjustability in factory stock form to take full advantage of modern tire technology, and (3) not easy to adapt rack and pinion steering. Don't think the basic geometry can be faulted, though. And there are some advantages to torsion bars vs. coils or whatever, and modern upgrades can make it all work very well.
Which doesn't have too much to do with whether or not the Alterkation setup is really suited for or safe for a true street-driven vehicle - a matter which I don't pretend to be competent to judge. Interesting discussion, though.
Good post.  I have nothing to say about the Alterkation stuff either except to say that I doubt most purchasers need it for their intended useage.
....just because a design is old doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't work well.
Dave
1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack
1974 'Cuda
2008 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Ram 3500 Diesel
2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel
2003 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Durango Limited
[url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
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