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Re: Blower intakes and efi? [Re: Mopar_Rich] #1213429
04/11/12 09:29 PM
04/11/12 09:29 PM
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Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline OP
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Kevin, I may just take you up on your offer some time!

Rich, thank you for your insights, that's very helpful. Did you find a flow bias to the front cylinders during low loads/normal driving ranges or just when the blower started really working and cranking out the boost?

Re: Blower intakes and efi? [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #1213430
04/11/12 11:51 PM
04/11/12 11:51 PM
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Great Neck,LI,new york
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Rich,I just wanted to take the time to say "THANK YOU".you are always there to answer the questions when it come to boost and about EFI.One of these days you will set me up with EFI


HEMI-ITIS has no cure.
My condition is fully BLOWN!!
Re: Blower intakes and efi? [Re: Mopar_Rich] #1213431
04/12/12 07:07 AM
04/12/12 07:07 AM
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The Netherlands
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Thanks for sharing that info Rich.

Quote:

* Throttle Body:
Many people liked the look of the Enderle or BDS “bug catcher”. But these flow so much air that it’s hard to get a stable idle RPM because of butterfly sealing and inconsistent idle return. Also, the tip-in just off idle can be hard to control because the increase in airflow is dramatic with a very small change in throttle. For a street driven car at least one port should be totally blocked off.





On the setup I'm putting together I was hoping I could use the Hilborn shotgun injector hat directly on the blower, but I was indeed wondering how those 2 large valves could manage off-idle and part-throttle situations.

Any solutions to this issue? Perhaps mounting flat-ish valve-bodies between blower and hat, does something like that exist??


Quote:

Testing:
1) We ran several tests with Roots blowers with fuel delivery only above the blower, and found that the rotation of the rotors can bias the charge causing inconsistent cylinder charge at low and mid RPMs. Also we found an airflow bias toward the front of the engine.




With 'charge', you mean 'richer' I presume?
Do you think this would also be the case with a pure gaseous fuel like Propane?

Re: Blower intakes and efi? [Re: BigBlockMopar] #1213432
04/12/12 08:02 AM
04/12/12 08:02 AM
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Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline
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Quote:

On the setup I'm putting together I was hoping I could use the Hilborn shotgun injector hat directly on the blower, but I was indeed wondering how those 2 large valves could manage off-idle and part-throttle situations.

Any solutions to this issue? Perhaps mounting flat-ish valve-bodies between blower and hat, does something like that exist??
Quote:




Yes, you can hold the timing and the fuel back a little so its not like an on/off switch. I run a bug catcher normally aspirated on my Hemi, and it was very touchy. I have two programs. One that gives it what it wants "race program" and one that holds back a little "street program"...Made the car a lot easier to drive.

I have also seen, for the Big & Ugly injectors, an adjustable mechanical throttle linkage that allows each hole to be opened at different throttle postions like a dual quad linkage with a slider adjustment...I have pics of it somewhere.

Last edited by Dragula; 04/12/12 08:02 AM.

'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: Blower intakes and efi? [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #1213433
04/12/12 12:10 PM
04/12/12 12:10 PM
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Sonora CA
Mopar_Rich Offline
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Quote:

Did you find a flow bias to the front cylinders during low loads/normal driving ranges or just when the blower started really working and cranking out the boost?




Bias was more boost dependent than RPM dependent. The higher the boost, the less the bias.



Quote:

On the setup I'm putting together I was hoping I could use the Hilborn shotgun injector hat directly on the blower, but I was indeed wondering how those 2 large valves could manage off-idle and part-throttle situations.

Perhaps mounting flat-ish valve-bodies between blower and hat, does something like that exist??




Yes. Many people use typical style "flat" throttle bodies and they have progressive linkage. They work fine and can be hidden. You could also do what Dragula said and progressively link the two plates - but that sounds complicated to me. Backing off on the timing takes the power away so the car becomes more drivable, but it also takes some of the fun out it.



Quote:

Do you think this would also be the case with a pure gaseous fuel like Propane?




I don't know. But the effects were less as the injector hat got hotter so I am assuming charge atomization was a parameter, which makes sense. I never played with Propane.

Re: Blower intakes and efi? [Re: Mopar_Rich] #1213434
04/12/12 01:53 PM
04/12/12 01:53 PM
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Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline
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Found the pics...

7162062-DSC01926.jpg (138 downloads)

'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: Blower intakes and efi? [Re: Dragula] #1213435
04/12/12 01:54 PM
04/12/12 01:54 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,384
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline
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2
Just ignore the pic in the background I just noticed...Luckily she has some clothing on.

7162064-DSC01925.jpg (133 downloads)
Last edited by Dragula; 04/12/12 01:58 PM.

'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: Blower intakes and efi? [Re: Dragula] #1213436
04/12/12 01:54 PM
04/12/12 01:54 PM
Joined: May 2004
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Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline
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7162066-DSC01923.jpg (150 downloads)

'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: Blower intakes and efi? [Re: Dragula] #1213437
04/12/12 01:55 PM
04/12/12 01:55 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,384
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline
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7162069-DSC01922.jpg (142 downloads)

'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: Blower intakes and efi? [Re: Dragula] #1213438
04/12/12 01:58 PM
04/12/12 01:58 PM
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Sonora CA
Mopar_Rich Offline
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So if I understand the pics, both plates are still opening together, just that the extra linkage changes the mechanical advantage of the throttle peddle. Right?

Re: Blower intakes and efi? [Re: Mopar_Rich] #1213439
04/12/12 04:04 PM
04/12/12 04:04 PM
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Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline
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No..There are individual shafts, and you can "stage" the butterflies in like dual fours...I didn't actually see it up close, but the guy that owned it was having issues because it was sooo touchy in his blown street car. He said this solved it on the B&U injector.


'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: Blower intakes and efi? [Re: Dragula] #1213440
04/12/12 04:10 PM
04/12/12 04:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
Mopar_Rich Offline
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Cool. I couldn't see from the pics if the plates were still on one shaft. Very creative solution even if the mechanics look like something that should be on "Mythbusters"

Re: Blower intakes and efi? [Re: Mopar_Rich] #1213441
04/12/12 04:18 PM
04/12/12 04:18 PM
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Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline
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Quote:

Cool. I couldn't see from the pics if the plates were still on one shaft. Very creative solution even if the mechanics look like something that should be on "Mythbusters"




Not my cup of tea, but then again I wasn't trying to street a +500 cube blown engine with a B&U injector...But I do take some notes.

Rich,

The 472 hydraulic cammed Hemi on your site with the Procharger, which Procharger unit was that?

I would love somthing like that with an SMRE reverse rotation belt set-up like the 540 Hemi...I just don't need 1500hp.


'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: Blower intakes and efi? [Re: Dragula] #1213442
04/12/12 04:55 PM
04/12/12 04:55 PM
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The blown HEMI used an F1 supercharger and a Gilmer drive.

Re: Blower intakes and efi? [Re: Mopar_Rich] #1213443
04/17/12 02:31 AM
04/17/12 02:31 AM
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levittown pa
fstfish66 Offline
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great topic,,,im just now starting to research this for my street driven cruise nite ...car show blown 340 66 barracuda,,ide like to get rid of the carbs,,way to rich in my opinion,,,,and a hat style injector may get less attention at state inspection,,,

i dont race it just drive it and have fun,,,where can i look for information on a set up that would work for me,,,,thanks


1966 barracuda prostreeter super charged 340(SOLD)
1940 dodge coupe 241 hemi street rod
2014 ram express hemi 4x4 dailey driver
2015 cherokee
2013 R/T classic
Re: Blower intakes and efi? [Re: fstfish66] #1213444
04/17/12 07:06 AM
04/17/12 07:06 AM
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Dragula Offline
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Quote:

great topic,,,im just now starting to research this for my street driven cruise nite ...car show blown 340 66 barracuda,,ide like to get rid of the carbs,,way to rich in my opinion,,,,and a hat style injector may get less attention at state inspection,,,

i dont race it just drive it and have fun,,,where can i look for information on a set up that would work for me,,,,thanks




I love the bug catcher set-ups on blowers...They have about the lowest profile you can get, and they look awesome. Go with what Rich says on the injectors above and below, and you will be very happy, just lighter in the wallet.

I especially like the self learning feature and will be putting my Classic FAST up for sale this weekend to upgrade to XFI 2.0....



'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: Blower intakes and efi? [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #1213445
04/17/12 11:22 AM
04/17/12 11:22 AM
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New York
polyspheric Offline
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The triangle is an over-simplified version of the correct (viz. highly developed) shape, which looks suspiciously similar to a NACA duct.
Examine a late Eaton discharge port.

Backfire + fuel above the rotors = very loud noise.

Linkage: read my article here:
http://victorylibrary.com/mopar/TB-linkage.htm


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Re: Blower intakes and efi? [Re: Dragula] #1213446
04/17/12 04:47 PM
04/17/12 04:47 PM
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levittown pa
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hey thanks for the quick reply,,to run injectors below the blower i would have to have the powder coating stripped off, and bungs put in the runners,,,small block blower intakes are hard to come by,,,,but thats not a problem,,im wondering if i would need them below vs just above the blower for this mild set up,,, any info is great, and thanks you,,, your motor looks killer,,,is that a sheet metal type intake ??


1966 barracuda prostreeter super charged 340(SOLD)
1940 dodge coupe 241 hemi street rod
2014 ram express hemi 4x4 dailey driver
2015 cherokee
2013 R/T classic
Re: Blower intakes and efi? [Re: fstfish66] #1213447
04/17/12 06:42 PM
04/17/12 06:42 PM
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Posts: 12,384
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline
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Quote:

hey thanks for the quick reply,,to run injectors below the blower i would have to have the powder coating stripped off, and bungs put in the runners,,,small block blower intakes are hard to come by,,,,but thats not a problem,,im wondering if i would need them below vs just above the blower for this mild set up,,, any info is great, and thanks you,,, your motor looks killer,,,is that a sheet metal type intake ??




Well to drill holes in an intake, you certainly don't need to stripe off powder coating or any paint. And if your careful enough, you also won't have to re-paint or powder coat it.

Small block blower intakes are plentiful now that Indy offers the Mod Man with a blower top, so at $640...Its about half the price of the other units currently available.

As far as the injectors, Rich says both...I would think you could get away with only 4 of them up top on a small block though.

As for my intake, its a cast aluminum Indy intake that I customized a little.


'70 Cuda,...605 EFI Hemi Street Car (6.20 best pass, 1.33 60ft)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYw6RA-k5Bk (6.25 at 108.75mph from inside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zQEb9uxFng (6.25 at 108mph from outside car)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCvfzsC4NgM (9.9)

'66 Barracuda AWB Stretched nose Blown 440 Car in build stage

'71 Duster Drag Car 400 Low Deck 512 best 6.002 at 115.44mph
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znuo3jMUXTk
Re: Blower intakes and efi? [Re: Dragula] #1213448
04/17/12 07:03 PM
04/17/12 07:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,844
poplar bluff mo.
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Id like to know more about the progressive bug catcher
i have a low profile psi hat (4 square butterflys) that i want to run on mech injection


1970 barracuda convert. 1 of 59
1970 pro street A.A.R. clone (panther pink)
1971 charger
2015 hellcat challenger. Redline red
2014 quad cab 4x4 ram 8 speed hemi
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