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Re: Overheating Circle Track Engine
[Re: BillNC]
#1203882
03/26/12 03:17 PM
03/26/12 03:17 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Did you check the timing again... if the 2 wires at the dist are backwards they will change the timing... alot of those wires were backwards in the plug 
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Re: Overheating Circle Track Engine
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1203883
03/26/12 03:39 PM
03/26/12 03:39 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 135
NC
BillNC
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 135
NC
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To answer your question, we have not yet re-checked the timing but is in on the schedule asap. Will follow up with a post.
Also, we are using the springs (heavy silver) that came installed in the MSD distributor. I think we need to change them. Any suggestions?
Last edited by BillNC; 03/26/12 03:46 PM.
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Re: Overheating Circle Track Engine
[Re: BillNC]
#1203884
03/26/12 03:58 PM
03/26/12 03:58 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,384
Upstate NY
Bigcube
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,384
Upstate NY
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The MSD box WILL retard timing over stock control module. A MSD 7AL3 is about 4 degrees retarded from a MSD 7AL2. I've seen that first hand plenty of times from dyno tuning (Dyno box) compared to the car's ignition box. I would bet it's even more compared to a stock module. The reason is the MSD unit will take more time to do it's processing over a regular ignition module. Check timing and report back what you find.
Jim
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Re: Overheating Circle Track Engine
[Re: BillNC]
#1203885
03/26/12 03:59 PM
03/26/12 03:59 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
To answer your question, we have not yet re-checked the timing but is in on the schedule asap. Will follow up with a post.
Also, we are using the springs (heavy silver) that came installed in the MSD distributor. I think we need to change them. Any suggestions?
I use the lightest springs... I just use the retarted
point just for starting... for me anything beyond
starting I'm at full advance... also check to see
what you advance to(they have different bushings for
different amounts of advance) I would think you want
about 18* initial and maybe 34* total(guessing)
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Re: Overheating Circle Track Engine
[Re: BillNC]
#1203886
03/26/12 10:11 PM
03/26/12 10:11 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,323
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,323
Bend,OR USA
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If you weren't burning all the fuel before the switch and IF IF the new ignition is burning the fuel better then your probally making more power now than before, that said, more power always makes more heat  Check the total igniton timing first   All the NHRA stocker 340 drag motors I have worked on like 30 to 32 degrees total timimning, that was a long time ago using VP C12 race gas 
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Overheating Circle Track Engine
[Re: BillNC]
#1203889
03/28/12 01:41 PM
03/28/12 01:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,408
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,408
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Quote:
Our plugs were gapped at 30. Should we adjust this also? The engine would pop a little when I let off in the turns.
.030"-.035" is fine for plug gap. Like everyone said, check the timing! I bet it is retarded.
CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: Overheating Circle Track Engine
[Re: BillNC]
#1203891
03/28/12 02:16 PM
03/28/12 02:16 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Our plugs were gapped at 30. Should we adjust this also? The engine would pop a little when I let off in the turns.
A leaky header or fuel in the pipes will cause that...
and if the timing is retarted
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Re: Overheating Circle Track Engine
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1203892
03/28/12 04:04 PM
03/28/12 04:04 PM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,051
The Great White North
RAMM
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,051
The Great White North
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Ran into this last year on a friends circle track (Mopar) effort. Mid season an MSD box was installed due to ingition issues---Ran the whole season with sluggish performance that did not match the expectations---Checked the timing with 3 races to go and found out it was 8 yes EIGHT degrees retarded! Of course the last 3 races were rained out so we can only speculate --coulda/woulda/shoulda. You should observe a retarded timing condition. J.Rob
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Re: Overheating Circle Track Engine
[Re: RAMM]
#1203893
03/28/12 04:31 PM
03/28/12 04:31 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 632
MD-USA
Dodgeguy101
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 632
MD-USA
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Quote:
Ran into this last year on a friends circle track (Mopar) effort. Mid season an MSD box was installed due to ingition issues---Ran the whole season with sluggish performance that did not match the expectations---Checked the timing with 3 races to go and found out it was 8 yes EIGHT degrees retarded! Of course the last 3 races were rained out so we can only speculate --coulda/woulda/shoulda. You should observe a retarded timing condition. J.Rob
Help a guy out here. Are you saying with just a box change the timing will change? Educate me, how could the timing change if the distributor wasn't moved? The box does something to the timing even though the distributor isn't moved? How would you set the timing then?
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Re: Overheating Circle Track Engine
[Re: Dodgeguy101]
#1203894
03/28/12 04:40 PM
03/28/12 04:40 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,384
Upstate NY
Bigcube
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,384
Upstate NY
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Quote:
Quote:
Ran into this last year on a friends circle track (Mopar) effort. Mid season an MSD box was installed due to ingition issues---Ran the whole season with sluggish performance that did not match the expectations---Checked the timing with 3 races to go and found out it was 8 yes EIGHT degrees retarded! Of course the last 3 races were rained out so we can only speculate --coulda/woulda/shoulda. You should observe a retarded timing condition. J.Rob
Help a guy out here. Are you saying with just a box change the timing will change? Educate me, how could the timing change if the distributor wasn't moved? The box does something to the timing even though the distributor isn't moved? How would you set the timing then?
Because the MSD/ignition module interprets the signal from the magnetic pickup and then sends the signal to the coil to fire the cylinder. MSD will do extra processing from magnetic pickup signal and thus cause a delay between when the signal for the pickup is received to when the signal to fire the plug is sent. More processing means a delayed signal to coil to fire the plug, thus the timing is retarded.
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Re: Overheating Circle Track Engine
[Re: Dodgeguy101]
#1203895
03/28/12 04:56 PM
03/28/12 04:56 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,384
Upstate NY
Bigcube
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,384
Upstate NY
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Quote:
Quote:
Ran into this last year on a friends circle track (Mopar) effort. Mid season an MSD box was installed due to ingition issues---Ran the whole season with sluggish performance that did not match the expectations---Checked the timing with 3 races to go and found out it was 8 yes EIGHT degrees retarded! Of course the last 3 races were rained out so we can only speculate --coulda/woulda/shoulda. You should observe a retarded timing condition. J.Rob
Help a guy out here. Are you saying with just a box change the timing will change? Educate me, how could the timing change if the distributor wasn't moved? The box does something to the timing even though the distributor isn't moved? How would you set the timing then?
And to answer your second question you advance the timing by advancing the distributor, you just need to send the signal sooner to the MSD so the plug fires when you want it to. IE, you need to account for the delay due to additional MSD processing.
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Re: Overheating Circle Track Engine
[Re: Bigcube]
#1203897
03/28/12 05:45 PM
03/28/12 05:45 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 632
MD-USA
Dodgeguy101
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 632
MD-USA
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Ran into this last year on a friends circle track (Mopar) effort. Mid season an MSD box was installed due to ingition issues---Ran the whole season with sluggish performance that did not match the expectations---Checked the timing with 3 races to go and found out it was 8 yes EIGHT degrees retarded! Of course the last 3 races were rained out so we can only speculate --coulda/woulda/shoulda. You should observe a retarded timing condition. J.Rob
Help a guy out here. Are you saying with just a box change the timing will change? Educate me, how could the timing change if the distributor wasn't moved? The box does something to the timing even though the distributor isn't moved? How would you set the timing then?
And to answer your second question you advance the timing by advancing the distributor, you just need to send the signal sooner to the MSD so the plug fires when you want it to. IE, you need to account for the delay due to additional MSD processing.
Ok, so for the sake of discussion, I set the total timing to 36, you are saying I need to set for say 37 or 38 to allow for the delay? Or if I wanted 18 initial, set it for 20 or 21? How do you figure what the delay is? I may be making this harder than it is. 
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