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Re: Sealing the magnum heads... [Re: eightlitermopar] #1180424
04/26/13 09:15 AM
04/26/13 09:15 AM
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scratchnfotraction Offline
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I would think 144 inch pounds is 144 inch pounds = 12 foot pounds on any style bolt.

I wiped the head & intake gasket surface down with brake clean and air dry with airgun.

spary gasket tack on end rail gaskets and do the 4 corners up with rtv, let stand 15 mins then install gaskets/intake dry with no sealer around water ports.

if you dont have a 1/4 drive inch pound torque wrench,you should find one to use.IMHO.

I did on #4 try and it may have helped. I used a 3/8 drive torque wrench clocked to 6 foot punds and again at 12 foot pounds.

the 3/8 to 1/4 drive adaptor might not have helped either.

good luck

Re: Sealing the magnum heads... [Re: eightlitermopar] #1180425
04/27/13 11:44 AM
04/27/13 11:44 AM
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Grand Haven, MI
patrick Offline
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Quote:

So, just a thought here.....

Would my torque specs be the same if I am not using a torque to yield bolt?

Would that change since it is a grade 8 bolt?



I plan on doing the 72-144 inch pound method as stated, but it was a question that popped up...

Also, Scratchin... did you use any silicone around the ports, or did you install it dry?

eightlitermopar




yes...grade 1, grade 5, grade 8, they all stretch the same...that's dependent on the material's modulus of elasticity, and all steel's modulus is essentially the same


1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
Re: Sealing the magnum heads... [Re: patrick] #1180426
04/27/13 11:23 PM
04/27/13 11:23 PM
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eightlitermopar Offline OP
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Thanks for the answers guys!


So here is the update we have all been anxiously awaiting!

I pressure tested my system up to 16 lbs.

I heard a small leak coming from the radiator.

I put my ear right next to it, under the top tank on the passenger side. This is where the bracket had rattled loose, which we just soldered back into place last week.

I left pressure in it, and it went from 16 lbs to 13-14 range after 15 minutes. I figure a 2-3 lb drop over 15 minutes is a pretty small leak.

My first thought was to run it, but put some stop leak in it. However, I thought I better fix the radiator first to make sure I don’t have any internal engine leaks.

So I may be getting a new radiator before next year!

My stock radiator (without a shroud provision) is actually smaller than the 22” support opening. It is only 19” IIRC. It cooled great though! I was actually impressed.

I thought I could get it fixed, add a core, etc, but that is just throwing money at a small radiator. I also have a 26” for a 69 b body that leaks like nothing else. It will need to be completely re-cored and fixed if I wanted to use that.

I may go with a 3 core, 22” champion aluminum radiator so I can run a shroud and keep it cool no matter what. I know a few people who have run them and have had good luck.

Anyway, I am encouraged by the very slow rate of leak from the radiator. That tells me I am probably safe on the intake leaks at the head.

This project has taken a lot longer than I originally anticipated!

Eightlitermopar


Mopar or no car
Re: Sealing the magnum heads... [Re: eightlitermopar] #1180427
04/28/13 12:26 AM
04/28/13 12:26 AM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Quote:

I heard a small leak coming from the radiator.

I may go with a 3 core, 22” champion aluminum radiator so I can run a shroud on the intake leaks at the head.

This project has taken a lot longer than I originally anticipated!




(1) not acceptable/must be fixed (2) good plan (3) it'll get worse


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Re: Sealing the magnum heads... [Re: RapidRobert] #1180428
05/04/13 12:37 AM
05/04/13 12:37 AM
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eightlitermopar Offline OP
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Ok, so I jumped the gun and got a new radiator.

Champion aluminum 3 core. It looks sweet (especially compared to the old one starting to grow green streaks). It was straight and bolted right in after some minor filing of some corners.

I have it all bolted in and rechecked the system for leaks tonight. It was a quick check done after work with only the dusk to light my work.

Pumped up to 15 lbs and left for 20-25 minutes.

When I came back to check, I discovered the pressure had bled down to 9 lbs in this amount of time. 6 lbs of pressure over 20 minutes.

Several years ago, my younger self would have thrown tools all over the yard. Then, I would just put stop leak in it and run it. However, I have tried to become less “red-neck” over the years and I am actually trying to do it right.

It could be leaking from anywhere…the heads, intake, water pump, water pump housing….

I loosened the alternator bracket several weeks ago, and water started to seep around the water pump housing…just from loose bolts, so I may check this area first. I thought I tightened the radiator pet-cock, but maybe it’s a little loose?

Any ideas on how to discover exactly where the leak is coming from? I don’t want to fill it with water to discover the leak is draining inside my motor again.

I dunno…..maybe I’ll never get to drive this little 318.

Eightlitermopar


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Re: Sealing the magnum heads... [Re: eightlitermopar] #1180429
05/04/13 02:11 AM
05/04/13 02:11 AM
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RapidRobert Offline
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Yes it definitely still has an unsealed leak. Not sure how to proceed but I would check/tighten every external connection in the cooling system & after that the heads may need to be pulled to get at the head gaskets EDIT before pulling the heads you may need to fill it with coolant & fire it up & draw some of the air above the coolant level under the rad cap with the "blok check" kit & see if it turns the fluid from blue to yellow which indicates the presence of combustion gasses in the coolant mix or if you have an emissions testing station nearby if you can persuade them to stick the probe in the air under the cap & the machine will detect combustion gasses if present in seconds.

Last edited by RapidRobert; 05/04/13 02:28 AM.

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Re: Sealing the magnum heads... [Re: RapidRobert] #1180430
05/05/13 12:14 AM
05/05/13 12:14 AM
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eightlitermopar Offline OP
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Last week when it leaked, I pulled the heads and put new head gaskets on. I really cleaned the surfaces, so I know they are clean. I will tighten everything I can externally, then if I still can't figure it out, I will fill it with water then pressure test it.

If it leaks on the outside of the block, I know whats up. If it leaks internally, then I at least know where to look for my problems.

I really don't want to have to pull those darn heads again! This motor hasn't even been broken in yet!

I am almost tempted to throw my old heads back on and call it!

eightlitermopar


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Re: Sealing the magnum heads... [Re: eightlitermopar] #1180431
05/05/13 10:38 AM
05/05/13 10:38 AM
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Actually on a cold eng test pumping it up to 15 lbs with air is just as effective as pumping it up to 15 lbs using water/coolant & air keeps the messy coolant out of there till we find the leak. Adding coolant then firing it up would let you check for combustion gasses which'd pinpoint it to the head gasket/deck surfaces but it'd sure be nice to find/fix the leak before dealing with coolant. I spoke with a shop once about searching for a vacuum leak & they said something about they use a smoke producing machine to introduce smoke to visually spot the leak. It'd sure be nice if you could pump 15 lbs of smoke in there & see where it exited & yes I'd tighten up all coolant connections & pray that that's it & yes with it dropping pressure that quick unfortunitly there there is still a leak somewhere. EDIT Make sure the seal on the rad cap part of the pump kit is clean/wet so that it's not leaking there. A spray bottle of soapy water may help you spot an external air leak (Windex might work) on the hoses etc

Last edited by RapidRobert; 05/05/13 10:42 AM.

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Re: Sealing the magnum heads... [Re: RapidRobert] #1180432
05/06/13 03:36 PM
05/06/13 03:36 PM
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eightlitermopar Offline OP
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For those of you who are interested... here is the update.

I finally filled the engine with water and pumped up the pressure.

I found a small dribble of a leak at the threaded bypass hose nipple on the intake.

I fixed that and tried again.

I pumped it up to 17 lbs the second time, and lost 1.5 lbs of pressure over an hour.

I discovered a small drip from my new radiator (awesome), but my biggest concern is the beads of water forming along the head gasket.

This is happening on both sides, but more on the driver side. Here is the pictures.

7696014-magnum042.jpg (122 downloads)

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Re: Sealing the magnum heads... [Re: eightlitermopar] #1180433
05/06/13 03:38 PM
05/06/13 03:38 PM
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eightlitermopar Offline OP
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Another view

7696018-magnum043.jpg (119 downloads)

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Re: Sealing the magnum heads... [Re: eightlitermopar] #1180434
05/06/13 03:45 PM
05/06/13 03:45 PM
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eightlitermopar Offline OP
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At this point I think I will retorque all the bolts to 105 ft lbs (again) to see if that makes any difference.

If that doesn't fix it, then the heads will have to come off again.

If the heads come off again, I'm taking them straight to the machine shop to see if they can figure out anything.

I am currently using the MR. Gasket head gaskets (.024-.028 thick).
I do have some felpro permatorque blue gaskets, but if I use these, then it would mess up my measured pushrod length.

So, the good news is....the intake is not leaking.

The bad news is I am going to have to do it again.

Does anyone else have any ideas at this point? It's starting to get old.

eightlitermopar

7696024-magnum044.jpg (57 downloads)

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Re: Sealing the magnum heads... [Re: eightlitermopar] #1180435
05/06/13 10:45 PM
05/06/13 10:45 PM
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get some new mr gasket gaskets. check decks/heads for warpage. make sure bolt holes are tapped deep enough. check bolt hole nearby areas for cracks


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Re: Sealing the magnum heads... [Re: RapidRobert] #1180436
05/06/13 10:56 PM
05/06/13 10:56 PM
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eightlitermopar Offline OP
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Well, good news. I may have freaked out a little too soon.

I retorqued all the head bolts, and the dripping stopped. This is good because this was my second set of cylinder head gaskets and I haven't even fired up the motor.

I applied pressure to the system at 17 lbs. 5 hours later it read 15 lbs.

Note: I do have a small leak in the radiator. One little drip.

After all I have been through, I am ok with this. I will keep everyone posted.

Hopefully I will get it fired up in the next week or two.

eight


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Magnum headed 318 running update! [Re: eightlitermopar] #1180437
05/17/13 08:36 AM
05/17/13 08:36 AM
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Finally! The update we have been waiting for! For those who have been following my magnum drama!

Broke in the cam last night. The motor fired off with no problem and sounded good.

The temperature held steady for the entire duration of the cam break in. No water leaks anywhere, no smoke from the tail pipes. I thought I had a leak from the new radiator, but it didn’t drip a drop during break in.

16 lbs of rock steady vacuum at 2500 RPM.

The only issues encountered:
1) Small pinhole leak in the steel transmission line which would spray the exhaust = lots of smoke (easy fix)

2) Leaking at the tranny fitting while under pressure in neutral (also an easy fix)

3) Engine runs smooth, but when the RPM’s are dropped to 800 RPM, there is a miss which causes the engine to rock/shake.

I suspect a bad plug (I just used the plugs that came with the used magnum heads).

There is a little watery black tinged “splatter” on the ground from the passenger side tail pipe (no cross-over pipe) after 30 min of break in + 5 minutes idle for cool down. The kind of thing you would see from running rich. It never smelled rich though.

Anyway, I will get new plugs and see if this cleans up my idle. It’s just fine tuning at this point, but I hope to get it on the road soon so I can beat on it and break in the motor!

Eightlitermopar

Last edited by eightlitermopar; 05/17/13 08:37 AM.

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Re: Magnum headed 318 running update! [Re: eightlitermopar] #1180438
05/17/13 10:49 AM
05/17/13 10:49 AM
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Change the oil & filter/change the plugs/keep us updated!


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Re: Magnum headed 318 running update! [Re: eightlitermopar] #1180439
05/18/13 11:01 AM
05/18/13 11:01 AM
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Grand Haven, MI
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Quote:



There is a little watery black tinged “splatter” on the ground from the passenger side tail pipe (no cross-over pipe) after 30 min of break in + 5 minutes idle for cool down. The kind of thing you would see from running rich. It never smelled rich though.

Anyway, I will get new plugs and see if this cleans up my idle. It’s just fine tuning at this point, but I hope to get it on the road soon so I can beat on it and break in the motor!

Eightlitermopar




I had tuned my old mag headed 318 with an LM-1 wide band 02, and even at fast idle (which measured about 14:1 AFR according to the WB 02), it would leave black soot on the snow....

glad to hear you're making good progress....


1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
Finally road test results! Magnum heads! [Re: patrick] #1180440
05/18/13 09:38 PM
05/18/13 09:38 PM
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eightlitermopar Offline OP
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I didn’t have to go into work today, so here the findings and results of today’s efforts. Sorry for the long post, but this is what I have been waiting for.

I was curious, so I took out the plugs to take a look at them. I discovered 1) some idiot had not torqued them in properly (they were just snug), and 2) the gap was only .020, probably untouched right out of the box. I never checked them before, as they came with the heads from the junk yard.

I gapped them to .040 and threw them back in, properly torqued this time.

I rerouted the plug wires to ensure none were crossed.

I fixed the leaking tranny line and fitting (by far, the most un-fun part of the day) and filled it up. Absolutely no leaks found yet.

Started the motor: It ran a little smoother, but the idle remained fairly high, even with the idle screw completely out. Vacuum leak? I removed the carb and put ATV silicone sealer on the gaskets between the carb and the intake. Result = Problem solved.

Idle 700-800 RPM and vaccum reading of a steady 12 lbs. I definitely have more of a cam compared to my stocker! High idle (1500-2000 steady RPM = 16lbs of vacuum)

Now it was time for the maiden voyage. The car ran great and I was able to put my foot in it a couple of times (but no redline). I only went a couple of miles which included two very steep hills (to put pressure on the rings). The engine warms up quickly and does not overheat. Consistant temps.

1) The car runs smooth, but has a much more noticeable aggressive exhaust tone than before.

2) The car has about the same power as before, but it seems more “smooth” across the powerband (well, as much as I pushed it anyway. I didn’t want to rev the crap out of it quite yet)

3) With the old set up, the engine would “rattle” or “knock” on wide open acceleration. Now, those sounds are COMPLETELY gone with WOT when the engine is under load.

4) I was somewhat disappointed that there wasn’t a huge gain in power according to the “butt dyno”, but I have to remember the motor isn’t completely broken in yet. Also, I am comparing this to my big-block roadrunner which I have been driving for the last 6 weeks.

5) Also, I didn’t make any changes to the carburetor. I put it back on exactly as it was when I removed it from my old motor. I have been running it lean (to pass stupid emissions) and to help with mileage for our road-trips. I may have to fatten up the rods and jets now that I have more of a cam in there.

So far I am quite pleased at how everything has turned out. The only thing I have left is to put the stock hood back on. I will need to find a drop base for my air cleaner because I am sure it will not clear with my new intake. At least this is what I am seeing when “eyeballing it”.

Then….we will see if it actually passes emissions with all the changes.

Anyway, sorry for the long post. Thanks to everyone who has helped me. I have learned a lot from all of this.

Eightlitermopar

Last edited by eightlitermopar; 05/18/13 09:40 PM.

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Re: Finally road test results! Magnum heads! [Re: eightlitermopar] #1180441
05/19/13 12:21 PM
05/19/13 12:21 PM
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eightlitermopar Offline OP
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I must also add that there is no smoke at wide open throttle. I was impressed with this. However, this is my first experience with moly rings...so....

Anyway, I need to pass emissions within the month, get a drop base air cleaner so I can put the hood back on, and then it's off for a road trip.

Still, I am concerned it hasn't gained much power according to the butt dyno, even with my bigger cam.

I am just going to drive it this year, but in the near future I would like to make the most of this head swap. (I have been following the other 318 4bbl swap thread).

What is the next area I should look into? Ignition first? Converter?, etc?

I am not looking for a race car, but I would like some more "pull" when I stab the throttle...

eightlitermopar


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Re: Finally road test results! Magnum heads! [Re: eightlitermopar] #1180442
05/19/13 12:49 PM
05/19/13 12:49 PM
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Grand Haven, MI
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what was the old cam and new cam? (I'm too lazy to look through the post)


1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
1986 Silver/Twilight Blue Chrysler 5th Ave HotRod **SOLD!***
2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
Re: Finally road test results! Magnum heads! [Re: patrick] #1180443
05/19/13 02:37 PM
05/19/13 02:37 PM
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eightlitermopar Offline OP
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The old cam was your stocker 318 2bbl cam, and there were some bent pushrods. Some of the rods measured .020-.040 shorter with the bend calculated

EDIT:The new one is the comp extreme engergy 250H cam.
http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=624&sb=0

Consider the specs with a 1.6 ratio and I have alot more lift. More of a torque cam than a street terror powerhouse. I chose this route for the road-tripping torque rather than racing.

eightlitermopar

Last edited by eightlitermopar; 05/19/13 11:24 PM.
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