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My new 416, what hydraulic camshaft? #1166084
01/27/12 05:24 PM
01/27/12 05:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 347
FRANCE, Paris
Chal340 Offline OP
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Chal340  Offline OP
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 347
FRANCE, Paris
I'm going to build a street / strip 416

340 block .040 over
Stroker kit from Muscle Motor :
- 4340 steel 4” stroker crankshaft,
- 6.123 4340 H beam
- Icon forged pistons with 20.5 cc head volume
Super prepped edelbrock heads from Hughes Engine with roller rocker 1.5 and beehive springs ( CompCams 26995 )
Edelbrock air gap intake
770 street avenger
8 3/4 with 3.91 rear gear and 26" tall tires ( MT Sportsman S/R )
727 with Gear Vendors and Hughes performance 2500 converter
10:1 CR
Stock exhaust 340 HP manifolds with TTI H pipe.

My question is what camshaft, I hesitate between compcams XE284,Lunatti 60403 or 60404.

XE284 : duration 284 ( 240 at 0.050 ) and 0.507 lift for intake, duration 296 ( 246 at 0.05 ) and 0.510 for exhaust.
Lunatti 60403 : duration 268 ( 226 at 0.050 ) and 0.494 lift for intake, duration 276 ( 268 at 0.05 ) and 0.513 for exhaust.
Lunatti 60404 : duration 276 ( 234 at 0.050 ) and 0.513 lift for intake, duration 284 ( 242 at 0.05 ) and 0.533 for exhaust.

Compcams has more duration and Lunatti more lift
what's better, more lift or more duration? and what's advantage or inconvenient for both. Torque, Hp at high RPM...

And with this combo how many HP and TQ do you think.

Herve


70 Challenger, A66, 340 ci
Re: My new 416, what hydraulic camshaft? [Re: Chal340] #1166085
01/27/12 06:54 PM
01/27/12 06:54 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,682
Philadelphia
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radar Offline
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I think you'd be better off with the smaller duration cam and taller tire since you have manifolds. Did you look at the comp xe275hl? In my eddy head 408 the power was from 2200-5000. Mine weren't ported though.

I swapped out to a MP 557 solid and the car is much softer on the bottom, actually making it a much nicer street car. It used to jerk violently when the cam came on at 2200 (stick car). Maybe a good converter would cover that up? With that strong bottom end you could cam for midrange and run a little shot of nitrous at the track?

Good luck

Re: My new 416, what hydraulic camshaft? [Re: radar] #1166086
01/28/12 03:40 AM
01/28/12 03:40 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,444
So Cal
autoxcuda Offline
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Quote:

I think you'd be better off with the smaller duration cam and taller tire since you have manifolds. Did you look at the comp xe275hl? In my eddy head 408 the power was from 2200-5000. Mine weren't ported though.

I swapped out to a MP 557 solid and the car is much softer on the bottom, actually making it a much nicer street car. It used to jerk violently when the cam came on at 2200 (stick car). Maybe a good converter would cover that up? With that strong bottom end you could cam for midrange and run a little shot of nitrous at the track?

Good luck




I've got a XE274S solid cam in my 416 with ported edelbrocks. Less lift than the HL comp high lift version. I don't have any jerking at 2200 rpm. I think my carb is setup pretty decent though (BG Silver Claw). I have a pretty tight converter too.

Video of it idling with full TTI exhaust with X-pipe and dynomax mufflers.

http://youtu.be/-8QSTlvdqSs

Re: My new 416, what hydraulic camshaft? [Re: autoxcuda] #1166087
01/28/12 11:01 AM
01/28/12 11:01 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,866
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize Offline
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Streetwize  Offline
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With Manifolds you're not going to have the benefit from overlap scavenging at high RPM, I would look at a Single pattern cam with between 234 and 238 @ .050 and a wider 112-114 centers with the cam in at 107-108. By spreading the centers (overlap duration) you can reduce the backpressure build up 'seen' by the intake charge (that would ideally be vaccuum if there were no exhaust bottleneck) on an Exhuast limited combo like yours; The downside is now the intake tract is more "on it's own" so you want to give it a decent amount of lift/duration to work with and centerline it a little later to help the top end.
A big carb (at least an 850, I run a 1000hp on my 414) also helps the intake charge by minimizing the pressure drop at WOT.

Hughes used to have a House Brand (Engle ground) ".904" single pattern Grind like that 236/236 and reasonably good lift, .525" or so. I'm pretty sure Engle can still grind it for you. So of the cams you mention the Lunati 60404 is closest....the cam I mentioned basically splits the difference in duration. I'll tend to size the exhaust for what the system cam flow for the powerband I want and the intake for as much as I can without killing torque at the low end of the powerband scale. In your case I think you can use the extra on the intake and do without the extra on the exhaust.

The ideal Duration with stock manifolds is a balancing act on a big cube motor still trying to breathe through oem size pipes, spreading the centers tends to broaden and flatten the torque curve, taking out some of the midrange (peakier) punch in favor ove a more gradual build up of cylinder pressure. The cam I mentioned will work very well for that app. An intake duration less than 230 @ .050 (say 224-228) on that size motor will still work really well right up to the 5000-5200 range, but the VE is going to start to drop off a little sooner in the powerband because on a motor that size the port velocity will start getting faster than ideal for the port cross section that allows for optimum cylinder filling.

Last edited by Streetwize; 01/28/12 11:25 AM.

WIZE

World's Quickest Diahatsu Rocky (??) 414" Stroker Small block Mopar Powered. 10.84 @ 123...and gettin' quicker!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mWzLma3YGI

In Car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjXcf95e6v0
Re: My new 416, what hydraulic camshaft? [Re: Streetwize] #1166088
01/28/12 03:56 PM
01/28/12 03:56 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
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Philadelphia
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Wise the xe275hl I mentioned is split duration 231/237 degrees with .525 lift but only 110 seperation. Comp reccomends 110 installation but they grind in a little advance I think. What youre saying about the lsa is interesting, i thought the split duration with more ex was supposed to give a small valve a better shot at doing it's job. Youre coming at the problem from a different angle?

Wouldnt that wide lsa cam make an off idle torque monster? Seems like a better cam with a stroker and 3.23 or 3.55 gears. This guy wants to run a 26" tire and 3.9 gears. I am interested to see how this one works out- let us know what happens when you get this thing together!

Re: My new 416, what hydraulic camshaft? [Re: Chal340] #1166089
01/29/12 11:40 AM
01/29/12 11:40 AM
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NY
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B1duster Offline
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check out the cam muscle motors uses in the street killer crate motor. Its a comp hyd and should work good with your combo.

Re: My new 416, what hydraulic camshaft? [Re: B1duster] #1166090
01/29/12 06:52 PM
01/29/12 06:52 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 347
FRANCE, Paris
Chal340 Offline OP
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Chal340  Offline OP
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Ok, thanks guys,
In this moment, I have a XE268H in my 340 engine with CompCams beehive springs ( 26995 ), these springs are OK with the XE275HL, I found cams at Hughes Engine, HEH2328AL, 223@0.05 for intake and 228@0.05 for exhaust, 0.506 intake valve lift and 0.524 exhaust valve lift. or HEH2832AL, 228@0.05 for intake and 232@0.05 for exhaust, 0.524 intake valve lift and 0.540 exhaust valve lift. I'm going to ask them if I can use it with my springs.


70 Challenger, A66, 340 ci
Re: My new 416, what hydraulic camshaft? [Re: Chal340] #1166091
02/01/12 07:12 PM
02/01/12 07:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,866
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize Offline
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Well...I hate to Brag....but I'm gonna

I spoke to Tim Goolsby at Bullet (and most guys who know cams know and respect Tim's VAST knowledge of Cams).

He said Herve should consider a Bullet #

CRA 287/350 287/350 H112+4

would be an awesome fit for Herve's 416 with manifolds.

The specs translate to 237/237@.050, .525/.525 (@ 1.5) .560/.560 (@1.6) Lift on 112's in + 4 at 108. This is their .904 Mopar specific grind.

Sounds pretty familiar...Like I read (or maybe said) it somewhere before...

He also gave me some great insight on some of the Valvetrain related harmonics issues that some people (though by no means all) notice with the extra Fast ramp grinds...To be honest some things I didn't realize but really make sense now that I do.

Anyway, Herve, It's certainly another grind number to consider.

Last edited by Streetwize; 02/01/12 07:13 PM.

WIZE

World's Quickest Diahatsu Rocky (??) 414" Stroker Small block Mopar Powered. 10.84 @ 123...and gettin' quicker!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mWzLma3YGI

In Car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjXcf95e6v0
Re: My new 416, what hydraulic camshaft? [Re: Streetwize] #1166092
02/01/12 08:49 PM
02/01/12 08:49 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,379
Taxes & Virus's R-US, NY
Dragula Offline
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Going from personal experience, I would go a different rout and suggest a Mopar .557" solid mechanical for street/ race / resto in the 416...It is awesome in the small block strokers and a beast that will idle like its almost tame until you let it out....If your going to run the air gap on the stroker, I highly suggest some mods to it...and at least a 750 double pumper with replaceable air bleeds for fine tuning.

1" open spacer fully blended, cut down and thinned center divider, radiused upper down turn lip and port matched. This is on my mild 360...I run a ported single plane on my 408...





Last edited by Dragula; 02/01/12 08:58 PM.
Re: My new 416, what hydraulic camshaft? [Re: Dragula] #1166093
02/02/12 01:45 PM
02/02/12 01:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,866
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize Offline
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Dragula,

I like the 557 too but Herve stated he wanted to stay with a hydraulic. I think the Bullet would be a excellent choice for the parameters he has spelled out.

I do like your RPM manifold mods, we spoke of them before and I was about to try those on my 414. But then I came across the solid roller deal so I wound up selling the RPM to get the Vic. Next time


WIZE

World's Quickest Diahatsu Rocky (??) 414" Stroker Small block Mopar Powered. 10.84 @ 123...and gettin' quicker!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mWzLma3YGI

In Car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjXcf95e6v0
Re: My new 416, what hydraulic camshaft? [Re: Chal340] #1166094
02/02/12 03:07 PM
02/02/12 03:07 PM

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FWIW, I just switched the exhaust on my mild 360 from 340 hi-po manifolds and 2-1/4 exhaust to TTI step headers and 2-1/2" X-pipe exhaust and the difference was so amazing that I can't see why anyone would go to all the trouble to build a stroker motor and then strangle it with factory manifolds.

Re: My new 416, what hydraulic camshaft? #1166095
02/02/12 04:40 PM
02/02/12 04:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 347
FRANCE, Paris
Chal340 Offline OP
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Chal340  Offline OP
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I know that I'm going to loose some HP, but I like this stock look. This is a picture of my 340 and I want to make the same. My car is for the street and I go to the strip 5 or 6 Week Ends per year for the fun.

7050317-340engine.jpg (378 downloads)

70 Challenger, A66, 340 ci
Re: My new 416, what hydraulic camshaft? [Re: Chal340] #1166096
02/02/12 05:09 PM
02/02/12 05:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,866
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize Offline
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Streetwize  Offline
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Beautiful car, Herve!

Lots of attention to detail!

The 416 is going to FLY, even with manifolds!

That 'French Connection' fender guard is awesome, do they sell those over there?


WIZE

World's Quickest Diahatsu Rocky (??) 414" Stroker Small block Mopar Powered. 10.84 @ 123...and gettin' quicker!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mWzLma3YGI

In Car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjXcf95e6v0
Re: My new 416, what hydraulic camshaft? [Re: Streetwize] #1166097
02/02/12 08:04 PM
02/02/12 08:04 PM
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Posts: 152
MA
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How about the edelbrock rpm cam? Matches intake and heads...?


1968 Dodge Charger R/T
1971 Plymouth Roadrunner
1998 Jeep Cherokee
Re: My new 416, what hydraulic camshaft? [Re: Streetwize] #1166098
02/03/12 03:53 PM
02/03/12 03:53 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 347
FRANCE, Paris
Chal340 Offline OP
enthusiast
Chal340  Offline OP
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 347
FRANCE, Paris
Quote:

Beautiful car, Herve!

Lots of attention to detail!

The 416 is going to FLY, even with manifolds!

That 'French Connection' fender guard is awesome, do they sell those over there?




For the fender guard, I don't remenber where we bought them, it was a special order for our team.


70 Challenger, A66, 340 ci






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