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What Monroes are you guys talking about as an alternative?

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What Monroes are you guys talking about as an alternative?

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"Monroe-Matics" are what I've heard them called

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I think the reason why some of us look down on KYB is because it is being used as a band aid to mask weak spring rates, which many will translate as improved performance. Remember the springs provide the resistance to motion, shocks only determine how fast that resistance occurs. If you significantly slow down how fast the suspension allows the body to roll, but not how far it will roll, you're only delaying the inevitible bottoming that will occur. Slow it down enough and you will transition the car to another direction before the bottoming occurs.

Back in the 80s, pressurized gas shocks were just starting to show up in the retail market place for auto applications. Monroe and Gabriel marketed their nitrogen charged shocks as replacement shocks while KYB sold theirs as a performance shock.

M & G used a lower pressure with a progressive rate which was very forgiving and smooth over small road irregularities but provided increasing resistance as the travel of the shock increased in speed for larger bumps and cornering.

By contract KYB used a high pressure charge with what feels like digressive valving which made the weak in the knees stock suspension feel like they handled better because they radically slowed down suspension reaction over large bumps and turns. For very small bumps the digressive valving kept the motion range so low it wasn't significantly noticeable, but the resistance would jump up so quickly that medium bumps or washboard would generate resistance comparable to a large load bump or hard turn.

KYB Gas-A -Just have not signifcantly changed since this time period. Their GR2 may not be too bad, but I don't think they make those for classic mopars, and honestly, I haven't researched them at all to know if they really are better.

My experience with KYB was a long time ago in the four wheel drive arena where they were brutally rough to deal with, esecially in short wheel base applications like CJs and early Broncos. When I traded my KYBs for Ranchos, the difference was like night and day. In the 25 years since then, shocks have advanced even further which means the good old KYB Gas Adjust has turned in to a bottom dweller in actual performance results, although they still market it as a performance shock.

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In 1989 I put KYB shocks in my lowered 76 Camaro. I already had Trans Am sway bars and 225-50-15 tires on it. The KYBs firmed up the ride even with the stock springs and the car handled better than any other car that I had driven, even an 86 IROC Z28.
Here I am, 22 years later with the '70 Charger, a car that is far superior to the Camaro in every way EXCEPT the handling. When I rebuilt the suspension I went with what I was familiar with... KYB shocks. I must have been on an island or something because the more that I look, the more I read that nobody with a hot handling Mopar LIKES these shocks. Mr Angry suggests the Edelbrock IAS shocks and considering his reputation, I consider this good advice. I'm curious to read opinions and experiences from members that switched from KYBs to the more expensive shocks. What sort of improvements can I expect to see? Is it possible to see a better ride while reducing the tendency to skip across bumpy patches of crappy pavement? I'm not against spending money if there are gains to be had.

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I can't believe you took the time to type that all out but yeah you covered it pretty well...

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The best shock absorbers are made by Bilstein and Koni..
Not cheap but they work great and last 100K miles..

Just my $0.02..

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Actually the best shocks are built by Fox and King;



....but they are overkill for any street driven vehicle. automotive shock technology is in the dark ages compared to off road motorsports.

Anywho;

- you have the stock replacement type stuff like Monroe and Gabriel. I used to sell Monroe and used the Gas Magnums on alot of my stuff.

- next step up is the Bilsteins, Koni's and such

- top drawer is the rebuildable, adjustable goodies like Fox, King and others make.

There is lots of interbreeding and rebadging by manufacturers and retailers too. I've always heard the KYB's are old school and harsh though I've not bothered trying them myself. I would go with any good replacement gas shock unless I was trying to race between cones, then Bilstein would be my first pick.


Dave

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Carquest shocks are made by KYB, are black in color, and seem to be reasonably priced.

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there are so many variables at play that, like a broken clock is correct twice a day, so too can even a piece of junk like a KYB can work well on some combinations, in some environments, with some drivers.

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Case closed.

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This really should be in "corners"?

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WAS no 'Corners' on Jan. 6th.

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This really should be in "corners"?

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WAS no 'Corners' on Jan. 6th.

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Well I guess you could now say we've turned the corner.

Regardless, it is a current hp chassis topic that we have covered ad infinite-um in years past, and I thought that a friendly suggestion to relocate was in order, and someone else must have agreed. They still suck.

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Understanding the difference between progressive, digressive, and linear valving combined with road conditions and the ever present "driver capability" variable goes a long way in understanding why some shocks feel overly soft while others feel too stiff. Suffice it to say there are so many variables at play that, like a broken clock is correct twice a day, so too can even a piece of junk like a KYB can work well on some combinations, in some environments, with some drivers.

In any case, to understand appplication of shock dynamics and capability is a big reason why so many Cup cars are so fast while others are also ran. Two decades ago there was no such things as a shock engineer and nobody bothered to dyno their shocks. These days, if you want to be a front runner, these are important things to have if you ever want to win. The understanding and capability of a shock is of paramount importance to the overall suspension operation.

Lets put it in these terms; shock absorbers are to a suspension what a camshaft is to an engine. Much like a cam will determine an engines useful range, power levels, ranges of power, and curve of power, so too will a shock operation within a suspension system to determine operating characteristics, manners, and feel. Matching shocks to suspensions achieves results similar to matching cams to engines. Sure any old thing thrown in there will work, but when you seek to achieve optimal results, the cheapest shocks with the most pressure are not going to be any better than using the cam with biggest lift and longest duration.

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To me....they suck. They're way too harsh for my liking. I had a set just recently (that were still good) on a police package Diplomat and the car rode like absolute crap. I could fell every bump in the road like the car was going to fall apart. The handling was worse than it should have been as well. Because if I took a corner at higher speed than the speed limit and I happened to hit a "bump" the car would literally "skip" in the turn. I'm amazed I haven't wrecked it. I went to the Monroe Sensa-Track or whatever they're called and the car is 10X's better.

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To me....they suck. They're way too harsh for my liking. I had a set just recently (that were still good) on a police package Diplomat and the car rode like absolute crap. I could fell every bump in the road like the car was going to fall apart. The handling was worse than it should have been as well. Because if I took a corner at higher speed than the speed limit and I happened to hit a "bump" the car would literally "skip" in the turn. I'm amazed I haven't wrecked it. I went to the Monroe Sensa-Track or whatever they're called and the car is 10X's better.

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my experiences with my hot rodded 5th ave that has police spec rear springs and sway bars...were very harsh on minor road imperfections, also felt a little underdamped with my heavy wheel/tire combo (17x8 mustang rims and 255/50R17's)....switched to monroe sensa tracks and lost none of the handling ability, but ride improved substantially.

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Back in the early 90's when I was setting up my frist A body I called KYB and got the shock rate info from an engineer there. He wanted to know why I wanted it and when I explained what I was doing he had no problem helping me out.

Your shock rate has to be compatible with your wheel rate. Since I could not afford expensive shocks I was stuck with KYB's. So I built my suspension around the shock rate available to me. I have no complaints with how it rides or how it handles. If I had the money I would probably got about it differently, maybe.

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You gotta run what you can afford.

Do you remember what rates and specs he gave you for those KYB's.

I ran them for years on my Barracuda with .99" T-bars and I blew a few out. To the point when I jacked the car they just bled shock oil out. I think I was at the limit of the spring rate for those shocks.

I know people that have ran KYB with 1.06 or higher T-bars and the ride is real wacky. They are overcome by the spring rate.

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The best shock absorbers are made by Bilstein and Koni..
Not cheap but they work great and last 100K miles..

Just my $0.02..

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I second that emotion. Funny thing, I read all of the above, and my complaint with KYBs is the exact opposite: Not nearly firm / stuff enough!

I've used Konis (eventually) on every car I've ever raced. Always like "yeah, now we're talkin'" when I finally bite the bullet. And the almost infinite adjustability is awesome.

Used Bilsteins on a 1G Dak recently, quite impressive, too.

Rick