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Why so much hatred for the KYBs? #1152002
01/07/12 02:56 AM
01/07/12 02:56 AM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog Offline OP
Striving for excellence
Kern Dog  Offline OP
Striving for excellence

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
In 1989 I put KYB shocks in my lowered 76 Camaro. I already had Trans Am sway bars and 225-50-15 tires on it. The KYBs firmed up the ride even with the stock springs and the car handled better than any other car that I had driven, even an 86 IROC Z28.
Here I am, 22 years later with the '70 Charger, a car that is far superior to the Camaro in every way EXCEPT the handling. When I rebuilt the suspension I went with what I was familiar with... KYB shocks. I must have been on an island or something because the more that I look, the more I read that nobody with a hot handling Mopar LIKES these shocks. Mr Angry suggests the Edelbrock IAS shocks and considering his reputation, I consider this good advice. I'm curious to read opinions and experiences from members that switched from KYBs to the more expensive shocks. What sort of improvements can I expect to see? Is it possible to see a better ride while reducing the tendency to skip across bumpy patches of crappy pavement? I'm not against spending money if there are gains to be had.

Re: Why so much hatred for the KYBs? [Re: Kern Dog] #1152003
01/07/12 03:31 AM
01/07/12 03:31 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,782
USA
J
JoesMopar Offline
master
JoesMopar  Offline
master
J

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,782
USA
To me....they suck. They're way too harsh for my liking. I had a set just recently (that were still good) on a police package Diplomat and the car rode like absolute crap. I could fell every bump in the road like the car was going to fall apart. The handling was worse than it should have been as well. Because if I took a corner at higher speed than the speed limit and I happened to hit a "bump" the car would literally "skip" in the turn. I'm amazed I haven't wrecked it. I went to the Monroe Sensa-Track or whatever they're called and the car is 10X's better.

Re: Why so much hatred for the KYBs? [Re: JoesMopar] #1152004
01/07/12 04:42 AM
01/07/12 04:42 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo Offline
Too Many Posts
DaytonaTurbo  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
Have read a lot of hate for the kyb's on other forums I'm on too. Never tried them myself but you're right in that they don't get much love these days.

Re: Why so much hatred for the KYBs? [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #1152005
01/07/12 05:37 AM
01/07/12 05:37 AM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 817
Eugene, Oregon
Secret Chimp Offline
super stock
Secret Chimp  Offline
super stock

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 817
Eugene, Oregon
Monroes don't seem to have much more than factory damping in them. I have a brand new set of them and my car will still bound and dive close to the bumpstops over big heaves on the freeway.


1967 Dodge Coronet Deluxe station wagon

1.03" T-bars, QA1 arms/rods, Cordoba/GM Metric/Volare brake & knuckle, XHDs, Hellwig rear sway, 318 Magnum w/ air gap, 727, 3.23s
Re: Why so much hatred for the KYBs? [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #1152006
01/07/12 11:38 AM
01/07/12 11:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck  Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
?? Had them on a 383 69 Charger, worked well w/ the factory suspenion, but I don't really know any better.


[IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/pui5j.jpg[/IMG]
Coming soon!!!!
Re: Why so much hatred for the KYBs? [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1152007
01/07/12 01:48 PM
01/07/12 01:48 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,799
Arlington, Texas
B
bobby66 Offline
master
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master
B

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,799
Arlington, Texas
I like the KYB's on my '66 Charger. It weighs 4150 with me in it so maybe that's a factor.

Re: Why so much hatred for the KYBs? [Re: bobby66] #1152008
01/07/12 01:55 PM
01/07/12 01:55 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,808
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda Offline
Too Many Posts
Pacnorthcuda  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,808
Kirkland, Washington
I put KYB Gas-a-justs (they are different from the GR-2's or whatever they are called) on:
77 Volare
70 Barracuda
70 'Cuda

I like them for some reasons:
Cheap
Firm
They don't wear out fast (that could be a disadvantage )
They stiffen up a soft suspension a bit
They handle great on smooth roads

I dislike them for some reasons:
Jarring ride on bumpy roads
Poor weight transfer (they hinder the rear suspension from doing its job under hard acceleration)

They're ok. Better would be Monroes on a stiffend suspension IMHO.

Re: Why so much hatred for the KYBs? [Re: bobby66] #1152009
01/07/12 01:56 PM
01/07/12 01:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,012
indiana
M
mcmopars Offline
super stock
mcmopars  Offline
super stock
M

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,012
indiana
i have them on the front of my duster.they are too stiff for my liking.im going to monroe,no road racing,just straight line speed encounters.

Re: Why so much hatred for the KYBs? [Re: mcmopars] #1152010
01/07/12 02:02 PM
01/07/12 02:02 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,677
Fresno, CA
Jim_Lusk Offline
I Live Here
Jim_Lusk  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,677
Fresno, CA
We had them on my son's Barracuda. I never felt the ride was too harsh, even when we went to 1.14" torsion bars. The last ride I had in that car was a spirited run on a country road. That car always just stuck to the road......

Certainly there are better shocks and Alan will use them when the car goes back together so I am taking them for my Barracuda convertible. If I don't like them on that car I'll go backwards to some regular Monroe gas shocks.

Re: Why so much hatred for the KYBs? [Re: Jim_Lusk] #1152011
01/07/12 02:20 PM
01/07/12 02:20 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,681
Florida
BDW Online content
master
BDW  Online Content
master

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,681
Florida
What Monroes are you guys talking about as an alternative?

Re: Why so much hatred for the KYBs? [Re: Kern Dog] #1152012
01/07/12 02:35 PM
01/07/12 02:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,385
Pikes Peak Country
T
TC@HP2 Offline
master
TC@HP2  Offline
master
T

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,385
Pikes Peak Country
I think the reason why some of us look down on KYB is because it is being used as a band aid to mask weak spring rates, which many will translate as improved performance. Remember the springs provide the resistance to motion, shocks only determine how fast that resistance occurs. If you significantly slow down how fast the suspension allows the body to roll, but not how far it will roll, you're only delaying the inevitible bottoming that will occur. Slow it down enough and you will transition the car to another direction before the bottoming occurs.

Back in the 80s, pressurized gas shocks were just starting to show up in the retail market place for auto applications. Monroe and Gabriel marketed their nitrogen charged shocks as replacement shocks while KYB sold theirs as a performance shock.

M & G used a lower pressure with a progressive rate which was very forgiving and smooth over small road irregularities but provided increasing resistance as the travel of the shock increased in speed for larger bumps and cornering.

By contract KYB used a high pressure charge with what feels like digressive valving which made the weak in the knees stock suspension feel like they handled better because they radically slowed down suspension reaction over large bumps and turns. For very small bumps the digressive valving kept the motion range so low it wasn't significantly noticeable, but the resistance would jump up so quickly that medium bumps or washboard would generate resistance comparable to a large load bump or hard turn.

KYB Gas-A -Just have not signifcantly changed since this time period. Their GR2 may not be too bad, but I don't think they make those for classic mopars, and honestly, I haven't researched them at all to know if they really are better.

My experience with KYB was a long time ago in the four wheel drive arena where they were brutally rough to deal with, esecially in short wheel base applications like CJs and early Broncos. When I traded my KYBs for Ranchos, the difference was like night and day. In the 25 years since then, shocks have advanced even further which means the good old KYB Gas Adjust has turned in to a bottom dweller in actual performance results, although they still market it as a performance shock.

Re: Why so much hatred for the KYBs? [Re: BDW] #1152013
01/07/12 02:37 PM
01/07/12 02:37 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,808
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda Offline
Too Many Posts
Pacnorthcuda  Offline
Too Many Posts

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,808
Kirkland, Washington
Quote:

What Monroes are you guys talking about as an alternative?




"Monroe-Matics" are what I've heard them called

Re: Why so much hatred for the KYBs? [Re: Kern Dog] #1152014
01/07/12 05:03 PM
01/07/12 05:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,435
So Cal
Sinitro Offline
master
Sinitro  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,435
So Cal
The best shock absorbers are made by Bilstein and Koni..
Not cheap but they work great and last 100K miles..

Just my $0.02..

Re: Why so much hatred for the KYBs? [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #1152015
01/07/12 05:05 PM
01/07/12 05:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,442
Texas
D
Daty Rogers Offline
World's Greatest Husband. I love you Robyn
Daty Rogers  Offline
World's Greatest Husband. I love you Robyn
D

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,442
Texas
I had KYBs on my 67 BCuda vert and handlinng stunk, switched to AIS and handling was greatly improved.

-Daty

Re: Why so much hatred for the KYBs? [Re: Pacnorthcuda] #1152016
01/07/12 05:20 PM
01/07/12 05:20 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,681
Florida
BDW Online content
master
BDW  Online Content
master

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,681
Florida
Quote:

Quote:

What Monroes are you guys talking about as an alternative?




"Monroe-Matics" are what I've heard them called




Thx, funny that's what I just put on my car. Only $10 each from Rockauto.

Re: Why so much hatred for the KYBs? [Re: TC@HP2] #1152017
01/07/12 05:26 PM
01/07/12 05:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
1_WILD_RT Offline
Management Trainee
1_WILD_RT  Offline
Management Trainee

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
Quote:

I think the reason why some of us look down on KYB is because it is being used as a band aid to mask weak spring rates, which many will translate as improved performance. Remember the springs provide the resistance to motion, shocks only determine how fast that resistance occurs. If you significantly slow down how fast the suspension allows the body to roll, but not how far it will roll, you're only delaying the inevitible bottoming that will occur. Slow it down enough and you will transition the car to another direction before the bottoming occurs.

Back in the 80s, pressurized gas shocks were just starting to show up in the retail market place for auto applications. Monroe and Gabriel marketed their nitrogen charged shocks as replacement shocks while KYB sold theirs as a performance shock.

M & G used a lower pressure with a progressive rate which was very forgiving and smooth over small road irregularities but provided increasing resistance as the travel of the shock increased in speed for larger bumps and cornering.

By contract KYB used a high pressure charge with what feels like digressive valving which made the weak in the knees stock suspension feel like they handled better because they radically slowed down suspension reaction over large bumps and turns. For very small bumps the digressive valving kept the motion range so low it wasn't significantly noticeable, but the resistance would jump up so quickly that medium bumps or washboard would generate resistance comparable to a large load bump or hard turn.

KYB Gas-A -Just have not signifcantly changed since this time period. Their GR2 may not be too bad, but I don't think they make those for classic mopars, and honestly, I haven't researched them at all to know if they really are better.

My experience with KYB was a long time ago in the four wheel drive arena where they were brutally rough to deal with, esecially in short wheel base applications like CJs and early Broncos. When I traded my KYBs for Ranchos, the difference was like night and day. In the 25 years since then, shocks have advanced even further which means the good old KYB Gas Adjust has turned in to a bottom dweller in actual performance results, although they still market it as a performance shock.





I can't believe you took the time to type that all out but yeah you covered it pretty well...

And the Monroe-Matics aren't a performance shock at all but I've used them & recommend them over KYB's they dampen without being harsh..

Currently I have Bilsteins on three of my four running vehicles... The forth vehicle has less than 10k miles since new.. when I replace the shocks guess what I'll be putting on it...


"The Armies of our ancestors were lucky, in that they were not trailed by a second army of pencil pushers."
Re: Why so much hatred for the KYBs? [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #1152018
01/07/12 09:05 PM
01/07/12 09:05 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 757
Toronto, Ont, Canada
boydsdodge Offline
super stock
boydsdodge  Offline
super stock

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 757
Toronto, Ont, Canada

I did the Bilstien swap this summer, took it for a test drive thru my favorite hispeed corners and I held the line so much easier then the lane changing KYBs.
A full set of KYBs will run 200.00 a full set of Bilsteins from FirmFeel will run 400.00
It was a deal.

Re: Why so much hatred for the KYBs? [Re: Kern Dog] #1152019
01/07/12 09:13 PM
01/07/12 09:13 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,715
closer to Canadian beer!
torkrules Offline
I'm neurotic
torkrules  Offline
I'm neurotic

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,715
closer to Canadian beer!
Quote:

In 1989 I put KYB shocks in my lowered 76 Camaro. I already had Trans Am sway bars and 225-50-15 tires on it. The KYBs firmed up the ride even with the stock springs and the car handled better than any other car that I had driven, even an 86 IROC Z28.
Here I am, 22 years later with the '70 Charger, a car that is far superior to the Camaro in every way EXCEPT the handling. When I rebuilt the suspension I went with what I was familiar with... KYB shocks. I must have been on an island or something because the more that I look, the more I read that nobody with a hot handling Mopar LIKES these shocks. Mr Angry suggests the Edelbrock IAS shocks and considering his reputation, I consider this good advice. I'm curious to read opinions and experiences from members that switched from KYBs to the more expensive shocks. What sort of improvements can I expect to see? Is it possible to see a better ride while reducing the tendency to skip across bumpy patches of crappy pavement? I'm not against spending money if there are gains to be had.




Mine work good.

Re: Why so much hatred for the KYBs? [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #1152020
01/07/12 10:53 PM
01/07/12 10:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,385
Pikes Peak Country
T
TC@HP2 Offline
master
TC@HP2  Offline
master
T

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,385
Pikes Peak Country
Quote:


I can't believe you took the time to type that all out but yeah you covered it pretty well...





Thanks. Sometimes the need to expand a bit more than "They Suck" is necessary to help others understand why there are better choices out there and why their perception of improvement is somewhat of a misnomer.

Re: Why so much hatred for the KYBs? [Re: Kern Dog] #1152021
01/07/12 11:03 PM
01/07/12 11:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 292
Atlanta
DartGTX Offline
enthusiast
DartGTX  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 292
Atlanta
Haters gonna Hate.... LOVE mine since 2000!!!

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