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Re: Twin Brown Wires At The Ballast
[Re: YO7_A66]
#1134568
12/16/11 11:34 AM
12/16/11 11:34 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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Quote:
Alternator Blue wire (I do not have hooked up and it should have a tracer) So it appears that I still need the Blue/Tracer alternator wire if I am understanding you correctly.
The blue ign1 (run) wire that feeds (1) the coil (2) the ecu (or msd) (3) the v reg is (4) alt field is solid blue. There is a seperate blue w tracer wire from the ign sw but I'll check mymopar & see if I can see what it feeds EDIT My error it shows only one blue wire from the ign sw & it IS blue w tracer and it goes to a triple T which feeds (3), the alt field/v reg/ballast(coil) with 3 solid blue wires from the T
Last edited by RapidRobert; 12/16/11 11:46 AM.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Twin Brown Wires At The Ballast
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1134569
12/16/11 11:56 AM
12/16/11 11:56 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,446 Indiana
YO7_A66
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,446
Indiana
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I have been thinking about the alternator dark blue wire and I do not see where it ties into the ignition circuit. It appears to go from the alternator to the bulkhead. I don't see a schematic that shows the alternator wire connecting to the ignition wiring under the hood. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The MSD RED wire calls for the "original coil "+" terminal" wires. This would be the twin brown wires according to this schematic. I tested the twin brown wires last night for both RUN and START voltages and that connection did show both voltages. I have tried the following and still I got the ammeter and both voltage gauges bouncing: - Blue RUN wire and Brown (single wire) START wire (idled and started fine but had the bouncing electrical gauges. - Blue RUN wire and Brown (single wire) START wire connected to the twin brown wires (idled and started fine but had bouncing gauges. - I have not tested just the two twin brown wires.
So I have tested the two wires together and then tested the four wires together and both combinations are giving me the ammeter bouncing around on the "+" side and the voltage guages bouncing around from 12-16 volts. Any suggestions? Please keep in mind that all three gauges were fine before I made the ignition box swap. Thanks
1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger 340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
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Re: Twin Brown Wires At The Ballast
[Re: YO7_A66]
#1134570
12/16/11 12:07 PM
12/16/11 12:07 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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If you check mymopar you can see the triple T in the '70 challenger "A" wiring diagram which is what I was going by. OK it starts/runs but the voltage is all over the place? I'm at a loss so far as to why the voltage is not reasonably steady but an intermittent connection is what is jumping out at me but I know I'm missing something EDIT I think I'd jump the MSD directly from the batt positive and negative posts to try & pin down if the prob is in the MSD box or in the wiring, we gotta get some progress going
Last edited by RapidRobert; 12/16/11 12:21 PM.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Twin Brown Wires At The Ballast
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1134572
12/16/11 12:20 PM
12/16/11 12:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,446 Indiana
YO7_A66
OP
master
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OP
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,446
Indiana
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I am referencing that schematic too and it backs up my thinking of :
"" The MSD RED wire calls for the "original coil "+" terminal" wires. This would be the twin brown wires according to this schematic.""
It is the only combo that I have not tested yet. But this is the same thing as using the Blue RUN and the Brown START. Thanks guys.
Last edited by YO7_A66; 12/16/11 12:34 PM.
1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger 340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
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Re: Twin Brown Wires At The Ballast
[Re: YO7_A66]
#1134573
12/16/11 12:36 PM
12/16/11 12:36 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
I am referencing that schematic too and it backs up my thinking of :
"" The MSD RED wire calls for the "original coil "+" terminal" wires. This would be the twin brown wires according to this schematic.""
It is the only combo that I have not tested yet. Thanks guys.
In the diagram I posted you will see that the CRANK mode comes from the relay and the run comes from the switch... for MSD those 2 modes(crank and run) have to be tied together, other wise you wont have 12v during cranking
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Re: Twin Brown Wires At The Ballast
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1134574
12/16/11 12:43 PM
12/16/11 12:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,968 Hampton, Ga.
70dart360
Green Meister
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Green Meister
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,968
Hampton, Ga.
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The brown and blue have to be tied together and all should be fine. The extra brown just jumps over to the coil for a full 12v on crank only, then the blue keeps it running.
70 Dart Swinger
72 D-100 440 shortbed
76 Pinto, 68k 21mpg!
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Re: Twin Brown Wires At The Ballast
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1134575
12/16/11 12:46 PM
12/16/11 12:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,446 Indiana
YO7_A66
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,446
Indiana
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I have the Blue RUN wire and the single Brown START wire connected together and it started and idled fine except for the ammeter/battery gauge/MSD 12v feed guages going berzerk. Then I tested the twin brown wires and they both showed 12v START and 12 RUN also which I thought was weird. Thanks MR. P. and 70 -------------------------------------------------
""I think I'd jump the MSD directly from the batt positive and negative posts""
My first test was having the HEAVY RED wire from the MSD box going to my 40a fuse that comes off of my starter relay. The gauges showed bouncing. Then I tested it again with this same wire going to my positive battery post cable and the gauges showed the same thing. I have the HEAVY BLACK wire going to my intake where I have three body grounds mounted together on a bolt. I will try to take this same wire to the negative battery cable to see if this makes a difference. Maybe my main ground going to the intake is the issue. Thanks allot.
1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger 340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
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Re: Twin Brown Wires At The Ballast
[Re: 70dart360]
#1134577
12/16/11 01:06 PM
12/16/11 01:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,446 Indiana
YO7_A66
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,446
Indiana
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The box is new and I used a voltmeter from the pos of the battery to each of the mounting bolts on the box and I got my 12v signal. So I am assuming that the box is grounded well. But I will move the HEAVY BLACK ground wire to the battery cable. Thanks
1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger 340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
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Re: Twin Brown Wires At The Ballast
[Re: YO7_A66]
#1134578
12/16/11 03:56 PM
12/16/11 03:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,446 Indiana
YO7_A66
OP
master
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OP
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,446
Indiana
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After discussing this with an EE, I am now wondering if I am seeing electrical noise issues coming from the coil wires (435v). My coil wires and my volt gauge wire are running parallel left to right along the firewall. The volt gauge wire goes inside of the car, under the dash and is mounted next to the other volt gauge. These two volt gauge wires are wire tied together under the dash which might explain why both volt gauges are being affected. This could be the cause of a timing issue that I am having since installing this MSD unit too.
I am waiting on a response from MSD to see if this is a possibility or not. These are my questions to MSD:
* Since I have one of the volt gauges wired into the small red wire shown, could there be electrical noise from the MSD box that may be affecting this gauge?
* I have this volt gauge wire running from the passenger side to the drivers side along the fire wall and so are my two coil wires. Could the coil wires be leaking into this volt gauge wire?
* If this is electrical noise, could this be the culprit for my 30 degrees of extra timing that my two timing lights are seeing?
EDIT: MSD says there should not be interference going into my volt gauge wiring. A bad ground might be the issue.
Last edited by YO7_A66; 12/16/11 04:48 PM.
1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger 340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
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Re: Twin Brown Wires At The Ballast
[Re: YO7_A66]
#1134579
12/16/11 06:31 PM
12/16/11 06:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,968 Hampton, Ga.
70dart360
Green Meister
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Green Meister
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,968
Hampton, Ga.
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Your definitly gonna have to reset the timing after installing the msd.
70 Dart Swinger
72 D-100 440 shortbed
76 Pinto, 68k 21mpg!
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