Re: New 588 blown hemi build.
[Re: dusturbd340W5]
#1129762
12/10/11 03:22 PM
12/10/11 03:22 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312 Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Well for starters, to the nay sayers you can call Tim Banning and tell him that the choice of a 588" is just plain dumb.
Sorry but it is, for reasons I mentioned. You don't need to have a big ole stroker crank in there with boost. It's not a good idea because boost keeps the oil from draining back fast enough. And we all know stroker cranks throw around more oil and why go to the expense of a stroker crank when it's not needed with a blower. It put's extra stress on everything and you don't need extra stress with boost, it already stresses the motor big time.
When someone mentions a large blown motor, I can tell this is there first blown motor, just trying to help. A blown 588 hemi sounds just plain dumb to me, sorry.
see 1 bad azz black 572 dart above seems to work well.
If you consider being on fire to "work well"...
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Re: New 588 blown hemi build.
[Re: dusturbd340W5]
#1129764
12/10/11 07:30 PM
12/10/11 07:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 588 Franklin, TN
23T Hemmee
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 588
Franklin, TN
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So Challenger, what you're saying is the man needs a hi-boost small cube combo to run a conservative 1200-1400 in a street-strip car, more than likely on pump gas/race gas. Does the term detonation mean anything to you? The combo he's talking about putting together will have less stress than your 451 at the rpm's you run (or should be running) and actually be quite streetable at a low to medium overdrive/boost. You guys have to look at the overall picture of what the mans objectives are. Sure you want short stroke for an all-out TAD-Comp-class motor, but thats not what it sounds like he is doing. I could have built a stock stroke Hemi to run the 7.00 class, but I'd be pulling the pan off every couple of laps to check bearings. That was fun in my 30's but I've got a one, sometimes two man crew now and I chose to build a bigger (557") low boost combo that is just about maintenance free. I pulled the pan once this season, have two seasons on main and rod bearings, and may get a third. My point in all of this is there is no "one size fits all" in this hobby/sport, so for any of you to say this is a dumb combo may want to stick to something you can do better.....
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Re: New 588 blown hemi build.
[Re: 23T Hemmee]
#1129767
12/10/11 10:58 PM
12/10/11 10:58 PM
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Anonymous
OP
Unregistered
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Anonymous
OP
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Quote:
So Challenger, what you're saying is the man needs a hi-boost small cube combo to run a conservative 1200-1400 in a street-strip car, more than likely on pump gas/race gas. Does the term detonation mean anything to you? The combo he's talking about putting together will have less stress than your 451 at the rpm's you run (or should be running) and actually be quite streetable at a low to medium overdrive/boost. You guys have to look at the overall picture of what the mans objectives are. Sure you want short stroke for an all-out TAD-Comp-class motor, but thats not what it sounds like he is doing. I could have built a stock stroke Hemi to run the 7.00 class, but I'd be pulling the pan off every couple of laps to check bearings. That was fun in my 30's but I've got a one, sometimes two man crew now and I chose to build a bigger (557") low boost combo that is just about maintenance free. I pulled the pan once this season, have two seasons on main and rod bearings, and may get a third. My point in all of this is there is no "one size fits all" in this hobby/sport, so for any of you to say this is a dumb combo may want to stick to something you can do better.....
Thaaaak youuuuu......... see now Jimmy and Ronny get the picture.
This motor will not see past 7500 and I want a reliable motor for my goal. No disrespect taken from anyone and I understand everyone chipping in there two cents and I do appreciate the input but not to worry I am in good hands with FHO. :thumb
Last edited by Superfreak; 12/10/11 10:59 PM.
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Re: New 588 blown hemi build.
[Re: cudacustoms1]
#1129768
12/10/11 11:02 PM
12/10/11 11:02 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Quote:
One thing to think about is cylinder wall thickness. I was told by a veterean funny car racer that when he switched from 4.375 bore to 4.467 it did increase hp but he was haveing alot more trouble with rings staying sealed. The best he could find is that the wall thickness of the sleave was thinner and it was loosing it shape under load. Granted this was different aplication but the princial is still the same.
This is a new mega block.
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Re: New 588 blown hemi build.
[Re: ]
#1129770
12/11/11 01:19 AM
12/11/11 01:19 AM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 588 Franklin, TN
23T Hemmee
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 588
Franklin, TN
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Quote:
Quote:
One thing to think about is cylinder wall thickness. I was told by a veterean funny car racer that when he switched from 4.375 bore to 4.467 it did increase hp but he was haveing alot more trouble with rings staying sealed. The best he could find is that the wall thickness of the sleave was thinner and it was loosing it shape under load. Granted this was different aplication but the princial is still the same.
This is a new mega block.
I don't know what the average cylinder thickness is on a mega, but the above bores on a KB block are pushing the limit on a standard KB sleeve, even with a solid block behind them. KB does make an oversize sleeve which, I think is 4.700" outside diameter which will still give .100" thickness at 4.50" bore, adequate for a N/A combo but marginal on anything stronger. More than likely the funny car guy had the std. OD sleeves which is I think 4.610" or 4.625", leaving him only about .070-.085" sleeve thickness, which is probably why he was losing ring seal.
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Re: New 588 blown hemi build.
[Re: 23T Hemmee]
#1129771
12/11/11 10:21 AM
12/11/11 10:21 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910 Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
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There is no question that a big inch blower combo can work and Tim Banning knows his stuff.You are in good hands We personally like to build consertative low maintaince engines and found a great balance of parts combo for our blower car.Donny and I wanted to go big(blower/engine)and after talking to a lot of knowledgable people we settled on a 14-71/540" combo.You can use all the parts you have mentioned and the only change or recomendation I would make is stay with the thicker cylinder walls you can for strength and seal.Your power level will be more than needed and you will not see any real gains from a lot of additional cubic inches.You will be hard pressed to "detune" your combo of a 14-71/Hemi to 1200/1500 HP. If you desired more power just swap pulleys. Good luck with your build.
Last edited by B G Racing; 12/12/11 10:48 AM.
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Re: New 588 blown hemi build.
[Re: 23T Hemmee]
#1129773
12/11/11 12:43 PM
12/11/11 12:43 PM
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Anonymous
OP
Unregistered
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Anonymous
OP
Unregistered
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
One thing to think about is cylinder wall thickness. I was told by a veterean funny car racer that when he switched from 4.375 bore to 4.467 it did increase hp but he was haveing alot more trouble with rings staying sealed. The best he could find is that the wall thickness of the sleave was thinner and it was loosing it shape under load. Granted this was different aplication but the princial is still the same.
This is a new mega block.
I don't know what the average cylinder thickness is on a mega, but the above bores on a KB block are pushing the limit on a standard KB sleeve, even with a solid block behind them. KB does make an oversize sleeve which, I think is 4.700" outside diameter which will still give .100" thickness at 4.50" bore, adequate for a N/A combo but marginal on anything stronger. More than likely the funny car guy had the std. OD sleeves which is I think 4.610" or 4.625", leaving him only about .070-.085" sleeve thickness, which is probably why he was losing ring seal.
This actually a siamese mega block.
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Re: New 588 blown hemi build.
[Re: camastomcat]
#1129775
12/11/11 01:50 PM
12/11/11 01:50 PM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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The guys that do this at truely competitive level like the smaller CI for the best reliable horsepower, like 500 CI. I never built one, but have worked on a few friends blown cars, and that's how they did it. I know first hand that big CI and blow by don't mix, and that's N/A.
This is not being built for competition racing, points chasing or ET chasing. Other than doing a pully change there will be no continuous mods and bla bla bla, when this motor is done that's it. I will be just going out and having a gay old time while I am still on this planet and after that I'll go fishing with the wife. You guys all need to take the competitive pro racing scenario out of the equation and not get your panties in a knot.
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Re: New 588 blown hemi build.
[Re: camastomcat]
#1129776
12/11/11 01:56 PM
12/11/11 01:56 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,592 Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,592
Great Neck,LI,new york
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FWIW,mine started out with a 4.5 stroke and 525 inches.I stepped on it too hard with too small of carbs and hurt it.The freshened engine is now 545 ci,stock iron heads,low .600 lift roller and a pair of SV1 carbs.On the dyno I only had pullies to make 10 lbs of boost resulting in 910 HP and 855 ft lbs @28* of timing.4 lbs on pump gas was 740 hp for the street.The huffer is a 1071 stage 3.It was together for 3 years with about 10k street miles before I shot myself in the foot & wallet .I'm not a competeter,more of an exibitionist in a 3800 lb brick. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpXgN2Ul2-I
HEMI-ITIS has no cure. My condition is fully BLOWN!!
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Re: New 588 blown hemi build.
[Re: ]
#1129777
12/11/11 02:06 PM
12/11/11 02:06 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128 Salt Lake City
camastomcat
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
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Quote:
Quote:
The guys that do this at truely competitive level like the smaller CI for the best reliable horsepower, like 500 CI. I never built one, but have worked on a few friends blown cars, and that's how they did it. I know first hand that big CI and blow by don't mix, and that's N/A.
This is not being built for competition racing, points chasing or ET chasing. Other than doing a pully change there will be no continuous mods and bla bla bla, when this motor is done that's it. I will be just going out and having a gay old time while I am still on this planet and after that I'll go fishing with the wife. You guys all need to take the competitive pro racing scenario out of the equation and not get your panties in a knot.
Well then......it sounds like you have it all figured out. You asked on the race only area, we gave opinions.....good luck.
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Re: New 588 blown hemi build.
[Re: ]
#1129778
12/11/11 09:25 PM
12/11/11 09:25 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,592 Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,592
Great Neck,LI,new york
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Quote:
Quote:
So Challenger, what you're saying is the man needs a hi-boost small cube combo to run a conservative 1200-1400 in a street-strip car, more than likely on pump gas/race gas. Does the term detonation mean anything to you? The combo he's talking about putting together will have less stress than your 451 at the rpm's you run (or should be running) and actually be quite streetable at a low to medium overdrive/boost. You guys have to look at the overall picture of what the mans objectives are. Sure you want short stroke for an all-out TAD-Comp-class motor, but thats not what it sounds like he is doing. I could have built a stock stroke Hemi to run the 7.00 class, but I'd be pulling the pan off every couple of laps to check bearings. That was fun in my 30's but I've got a one, sometimes two man crew now and I chose to build a bigger (557") low boost combo that is just about maintenance free. I pulled the pan once this season, have two seasons on main and rod bearings, and may get a third. My point in all of this is there is no "one size fits all" in this hobby/sport, so for any of you to say this is a dumb combo may want to stick to something you can do better.....
Thaaaak youuuuu......... see now Jimmy and Ronny get the picture.
This motor will not see past 7500 and I want a reliable motor for my goal. No disrespect taken from anyone and I understand everyone chipping in there two cents and I do appreciate the input but not to worry I am in good hands with FHO. :thumb
I will also add that my shiftpoint has dropped from 7/7200 to 6500 after seeing the dyno sheets.It felt like it was still pulling when it was in the car but the dyno don't lie.I'm very much looking foward to spring
HEMI-ITIS has no cure. My condition is fully BLOWN!!
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