Re: Hemi Rocker Arm Deflection
[Re: Troy]
#1120689
11/29/11 03:44 PM
11/29/11 03:44 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,686 Mt. Eden Ky.
Hemi Allstate
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Posts: 2,686
Mt. Eden Ky.
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Quote:
Are those HI TECH ROCKER STANDS in this picture??? If so the owner needs to change out the split lock washers that are under the shaft hold down bolts. If you dont you will be low on oil pressure. I was checking my oil pressure with the valve cover off and when I hit the drill motor to build pressure, oil shot out from between the bolt and the stand. What was happening was oil was coming out of the shaft...going through the split lock washer and past the bolt. I changed over to a standard washer and all is good.
Hello Troy, This is my engine, and the stands are Hi-Tech. I appreciate the "heads up". I wanted to be sure, so I pulled a bolt to check and the washers are a black, flat ground, apparently hardened washer, so I guess they changed or updated the hardware. I can see where the split type would be a problem.
Mark
1996 Ram 1500 Sport 1968 road runner 1952 Sears Allstate licensed, pump gas, Hemi 5.98 @ 115.73 1.33 60 ft. The best is yet to come. Painless Performance / Street RODDER magazine Top 100 for 2019
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Re: Hemi Rocker Arm Deflection
[Re: Hemi Allstate]
#1120690
11/29/11 04:00 PM
11/29/11 04:00 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,748 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,748
Bend,OR USA
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Quote:
Quote:
Are those HI TECH ROCKER STANDS in this picture??? If so the owner needs to change out the split lock washers that are under the shaft hold down bolts. If you dont you will be low on oil pressure. I was checking my oil pressure with the valve cover off and when I hit the drill motor to build pressure, oil shot out from between the bolt and the stand. What was happening was oil was coming out of the shaft...going through the split lock washer and past the bolt. I changed over to a standard washer and all is good.
Hello Troy, This is my engine, and the stands are Hi-Tech. I appreciate the "heads up". I wanted to be sure, so I pulled a bolt to check and the washers are a black, flat ground, apparently hardened washer, so I guess they changed or updated the hardware. I can see where the split type would be a problem.
Mark
It amaszs, actuallay infuriates me, to see people, racers, use split type lock washers on cast iron ,pot metal or aluminum carbs with out a flat washer between the split lock washers and the base metal
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Hemi Rocker Arm Deflection
[Re: Performance Only]
#1120691
11/29/11 04:18 PM
11/29/11 04:18 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 290 Manitoba, Canada
liteweight
OP
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OP
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Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:
correlate the deflection to crankshaft degree's and you'll find it's less than 1 degree. not enough to worry about.
With the DLI 1.7 intakes, it's actually alot more than 1*, it's 14.5*
So, anytime you degree your camshaft off the lobe, not taking valve train flex into consideration, opens the valve late & closes it early.
liteweight
68 Hurst LO Hemi Dart
70 hemicuda 4 spd. R code owned since 76
70 GTX 4 spd. 21,000 orig. miles
55 Ford F100 chopped,slammed,bagged & supercharged
96 Ram 2500 4X4 Twin turbo'd Cummins 550hp 1200 ft. lbs tow vehicle
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Re: Hemi Rocker Arm Deflection
[Re: liteweight]
#1120692
11/29/11 05:25 PM
11/29/11 05:25 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,091 Delray beach, Florida
Performance Only
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top fuel
Joined: Jul 2010
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Delray beach, Florida
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Quote:
Quote:
correlate the deflection to crankshaft degree's and you'll find it's less than 1 degree. not enough to worry about.
With the DLI 1.7 intakes, it's actually alot more than 1*, it's 14.5*
So, anytime you degree your camshaft off the lobe, not taking valve train flex into consideration, opens the valve late & closes it early.
liteweight
no offense, but if your seeing 14.5* of deflection, either your measurement is off or your measurement technique. do you realize how far the crankshaft has to turn to move 14.5 degrees?
machine shop owner and engine builder
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Re: Hemi Rocker Arm Deflection
[Re: Performance Only]
#1120693
11/30/11 04:52 PM
11/30/11 04:52 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 290 Manitoba, Canada
liteweight
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Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
correlate the deflection to crankshaft degree's and you'll find it's less than 1 degree. not enough to worry about.
With the DLI 1.7 intakes, it's actually alot more than 1*, it's 14.5*
So, anytime you degree your camshaft off the lobe, not taking valve train flex into consideration, opens the valve late & closes it early.
liteweight
no offense, but if your seeing 14.5* of deflection, either your measurement is off or your measurement technique. do you realize how far the crankshaft has to turn to move 14.5 degrees?
No offense taken. Hey, you don't know me. The 14.5* IS crankshaft degrees, 7* @ valve opening, 7.5* @ valve closing. Camshaft is of course half that in degrees rotation @ bout 3.5*opening & 3.75* @ closing. This would confirm the .052" loss of lift measured as per attachment.
liteweight ps. If I'm doing something wrong, I'm open to all suggestions.
Last edited by liteweight; 11/30/11 04:58 PM.
68 Hurst LO Hemi Dart
70 hemicuda 4 spd. R code owned since 76
70 GTX 4 spd. 21,000 orig. miles
55 Ford F100 chopped,slammed,bagged & supercharged
96 Ram 2500 4X4 Twin turbo'd Cummins 550hp 1200 ft. lbs tow vehicle
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Re: Hemi Rocker Arm Deflection
[Re: Big Wedge]
#1120695
12/01/11 12:08 PM
12/01/11 12:08 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 290 Manitoba, Canada
liteweight
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I've contacted Tim from FHO to go through this with me. He is currently at PRI & will be back next week. I'll keep you all updated.
liteweight
68 Hurst LO Hemi Dart
70 hemicuda 4 spd. R code owned since 76
70 GTX 4 spd. 21,000 orig. miles
55 Ford F100 chopped,slammed,bagged & supercharged
96 Ram 2500 4X4 Twin turbo'd Cummins 550hp 1200 ft. lbs tow vehicle
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Re: Hemi Rocker Arm Deflection
[Re: Big Wedge]
#1120696
12/01/11 10:35 PM
12/01/11 10:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,511 DFW
mr_340
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I sort of wonder why there is so much deflection right off the base circle? I would think there would be more deflection at full load on the springs. What are the seat load and open loads on the springs?
Floyd Lippencott IV
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Re: Hemi Rocker Arm Deflection
[Re: mr_340]
#1120698
12/02/11 02:11 PM
12/02/11 02:11 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 290 Manitoba, Canada
liteweight
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I was just forwarded this link to the ineffectivness of using spiral wound lock washers. Using them IS worse than no lock washers. liteweight http://www.boltscience.com/pages/helicalspringwashers.htmQuote:
The engineering community has abandoned split lock washers for any purpose. The opinion is they don't work and in some cases aid the fastener loosening. I've found NASA and US Navy documents confirming this opinion.
http://gltrs.grc.nasa.gov/reports/1990/RP-1228.pdf
Last edited by liteweight; 12/02/11 02:13 PM.
68 Hurst LO Hemi Dart
70 hemicuda 4 spd. R code owned since 76
70 GTX 4 spd. 21,000 orig. miles
55 Ford F100 chopped,slammed,bagged & supercharged
96 Ram 2500 4X4 Twin turbo'd Cummins 550hp 1200 ft. lbs tow vehicle
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Re: Hemi Rocker Arm Deflection
[Re: cbarracuda]
#1120701
12/02/11 03:21 PM
12/02/11 03:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,672 Lima, Peru
domingo
EL Master
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EL Master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,672
Lima, Peru
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Quote:
No matter who made the rocker arms it is also a spring
Thats why I said the Ray Barton Rockers will get you "at least as close as perfect as you can get". But no matter what they are made of and who makes em I bet they will always have some deflection.
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Re: Hemi Rocker Arm Deflection *DELETED*
[Re: domingo]
#1120702
12/02/11 03:30 PM
12/02/11 03:30 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,219 New York
polyspheric
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Post deleted by polyspheric
Boffin Emeritus
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Re: Hemi Rocker Arm Deflection
[Re: astjp2]
#1120704
12/04/11 09:03 AM
12/04/11 09:03 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,410 nielsville, minn.
quickd100
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nielsville, minn.
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Quote:
So not only do Hemi rockers have terrible ratios and consisitancy, they flex a lot? It beginning to feel like I am wasting my time building a hemi......Tim
The factory rocker ratios were all over the place. I believe the aftermarket stuff is much better. Even with the losey ratios the Hemi still makes darn good power. If you've never had a Hemi before you're going to be surprised. The Hemi just keeps pulling.Dave
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Re: Hemi Rocker Arm Deflection
[Re: mr_340]
#1120705
12/04/11 03:37 PM
12/04/11 03:37 PM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 413 Norway (old world)
Oyvind Mopar
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 413
Norway (old world)
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Quote:
I sort of wonder why there is so much deflection right off the base circle? I would think there would be more deflection at full load on the springs. What are the seat load and open loads on the springs?
If it is measured in crankshaft degrees directly, then the force has to go through the drive between crank and camshaft. Could this be the deflection shown directly? (Or some of it. Slack in cambearings and lifters to bore etc will also add some with springs much stiffer than test springs) What sort of drive is used; a gear or chain`or others? I would guess the loss of duration relates to this, and loss of lift is in the deflection from cam and up, my
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