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Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116546
12/21/11 11:35 PM
12/21/11 11:35 PM
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Freeport IL USA
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What the "gap" looks like.

6978503-101.JPG (308 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116547
12/21/11 11:42 PM
12/21/11 11:42 PM
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All the in process pictures are on the crashed computer, sorry. Gene

Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116548
12/22/11 08:44 PM
12/22/11 08:44 PM
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West Newbury, MA
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Looks good! It's funny as the glass almost looks TOO clear because it's new. Nice job!

Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116549
12/26/11 04:07 PM
12/26/11 04:07 PM
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New Jersey, USA
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yella71 Offline
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almost the same project I have been looking to do mine is a 46 dodge coupe that would make your plymouth look show room new.I have the front half of a dakota frame that I want to graft into the OE dodge frame. It looks good. My friend says Im nuts for even thinking about this job so your not alone.


71 challenger convertable, 64 sport fury 383 ci with factory air 99 sebring convertable 89 CTD pup
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: yella71] #1116550
12/26/11 10:16 PM
12/26/11 10:16 PM
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Yella71, I fully understand, unfortunately, this one is not the first disaster case I've been involved in, there have been a couple before this one. At the beginning of each of those other projects, everyone told me I was crazy, and every time I swore it was the last time I would undertake such a big project, but here I am, doing the 3rd or 4th such project. Maybe they are right?

Oh well, its always better after you take that first trip around the block and make it back home! This one is getting close to that 1st trip around the block, the list is getting smaller, and its starting to really look like a car! I've been driving it in and out of the garage for a couple months now.

This is the first major project I've done where the "parts supply ride" was a running, driving, & street legal car or truck. I've used so much of the original Dakota, its almost intact. Things have progressed quickly, as I'm getting past the "engineering" portion and progressing towards the "replacement" portion.
At this point, the largest out of pocket expense has been buying the parts to rebuild the entire Dakota brake system. Everything will be new except the brake booster, master cylinder, and rear brake backing plates. I have over $800 in brake only parts, I'm not buying the cheapest crap out there, but its not the most expensive stuff either. I'm waiting to the end to redo the brakes, the current brakes stop the car, but before it hits the road, all the new stuff will be there. The emergency brake pedal assembly is the only area that will need any engineering, unless you consider running new steel brake lines engineering. Replacing parts is a lot easier and faster then trying to figure out what will work together. Gene

Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116551
01/12/12 09:30 PM
01/12/12 09:30 PM
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Lost and Spaced
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The emergency brake pedal assembly is the only area that will need any engineering

Gene have you concidered a handle instead of a pedal? Like the ones mounted on the floor between the seats. Might be a little easier to figure out a mount.


I have mechanical Aptitude.
I can screw up anything.
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: bboogieart] #1116552
01/13/12 12:13 AM
01/13/12 12:13 AM
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Freeport IL USA
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Third time might be a charm, the goofy weather is playing with my internet.
Guess I need to do an update.
I kept the pedal assembly from the Dakota, and I also still have the original lever assembly from the coupe. Like everything else on the coupe, anyplace where to parts were connected together that were suppose to move, didn't. Nearly everything original to the coupe was froze. A few months ago, I took all the mechanical parts related to the body and soaked them with PB Blaster, just drowned those parts then set them on a shelf.

The coupe is about 6" more narrow then the Dakota was at the firewall. Since the coupe is a 5 speed, the area near the driver's foot is pretty congested. The Dakota e-brake assembly was a pedal assembly. With the gas pedal, the brake pedal and a clutch pedal, there is little room left for my big wide feet to share space with another pedal. I was concerned every time I stepped on the clutch I would also contact the e-brake pedal.

One day I pulled out the two brake assemblies and started comparing them. I discovered the previously froze coupe lever could move a little. With much more PB and the help of the bench vice, I could work the lever until it was free. I dissembled it and cleaned and lubed everything. Once freed up, it was a viably choice. I compared the way the cable attached and the amount of pull each assembly had between to two assemblies. The amount of cable pull was the same. The Dakota cable had a removable sleeve the was pined to the assembly that the cable slipped into. The coupe also had a sleeve, but its pin was staked, and the cable was also pinned to the sleeve. When I drilled out the staked pin from the coupe assembly, I found the removable pin and sleeve from the Dakota fit right on the coupe's assembly. I would be able to use the Dakota front e-brake cable unmodified. All I had to do was determine where I wanted the lever to sit and make a bracket to hold it on the car. The original lever mounting position was at the top & side of the cowl. That location was rusted away, and is now part of the heater air box assembly. I was able to make a bracket I welded to the firewall/door post to bolt the e-brake lever to. I still need to make a hole for the cable to exit through the floor, the original Dakota e-brake cable hole was at the edge of the firewall, a part that was removed. Making the hold will be easy and will be done when I do the rest of the brakes, probably in another month or so. I don't want to do the brakes too long before I'm ready to start driving the car. Gene

Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116553
01/13/12 01:17 AM
01/13/12 01:17 AM
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Freeport IL USA
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a couple weeks after the windshield install, I determined I wanted to replace both the big pieces of glass in each door. One was cracked, and the other one was starting to separate bad. I took one of my windows and dropped it off at my glass guy.
While the glass was out getting cut, I worked on the windshield wipers. I kept everything from the Dakota (I know how surprised you guys are about that ) The Dakota wiper pivots set on brackets mounted inside the vent box. The wiper motor also mounts inside the vent box, and the wiring attaches from under the hood to the motor inside the box. The plan was to make the brackets and attach them to the top edge of the vent box, just under the windshield header. Thought was I should be able to use the wiper assembly complete, with the only modification being modifying the length of the linkage between to two wiper pivots. Sounded good and looked good on paper...

The wipers on the Dakota stroke in the same direction, the wipers on the coupe stroke towards each other. Not much of an issue, there was nothing left from the coupe anyway. I could off set the wipers like they were on the truck, one pivot would be towards the center, and the other pivot would be towards the outer edge on the other side of the car. When parked, both would pretty much be laying at the bottom of the glass. Once everything was all done, only the hard core old car guys would know something wasn't right, and they are not going to like my car anyway.

OK, the next issue, the wiper blades on the Dakota are 20" long, but the coupe windshield is only 13" high. So its off to my favorite auto parts store to see what they have. They have, in stock, about 4 different 11" blades. The difference was in the way the blades attached to the wiper arms. I selected a couple of blades that used either a bayonet end or the loop end and carted my new blades home. My biggest concern was with the driver side wiper, I would need at least that one to pass safety inspection to get my title. The driver side pivot had a 90 degree swing. I determined the point the pivot should be mounted to give me the wiper movement I desired. Then I would modify the Dakota arms to put the blade where I wanted it. The location was determined and the bracket to hold the pivot was made. The top of my vent box was removed, the windshield was protected, and the bracket was tack welded into position. I discovered both the driver side and the passenger side pivots used the same mounting brackets. Another mounting bracket was made, its location was determined, and it too was tacked into position. The linkage was cut, formed at an angle, and welded together. With the wiper arms pointed in the air, moving the linkage would stroke the wipers just like they were suppose to move. I was stoked. I carefully positioned the motor so the linkage was unmodified, and clamped it into position (in case some relocation would be needed.) I hooked up the wires and powered the wipers. Man, they looked great, until I shut them off. They parked the wrong way! I was dumbfounded, I had no idea what happened. Then, I looked at a still assembled Dakota. I put the wiper pivots on the wrong side of the glass. I was so concerned about getting the wipers against the bottom when parked, I never considered which way the had to park. So that means i had to cut loose the pivot mounting brackets and move both of them. Now a new set of problems became apparent. I couldn't move the driver side post far enough towards the outside enough to have the blade rest against the bottom of the windshield. Where the pivot had to go was where the wiring harness entered the car, and it could not be moved. That means when the wipers are parked, they are not laying against the bottom of the windshield. I put it as far to the outside as I could. I moved the passenger side blade the same distance as I moved the driver side, that way I could still use the same linkage. That put the passenger side pivot at the edge of the cowl vent (which I was planning on using.)
I got everything tacked back together and clamped the motor into position, and turned it on again. After minor adjustments to the linkage to clean the center of the vent box, I made a motor mounting plate and welded that together. I made some adjustments to the wiper arms before the final weld on them, and connected everything up. I put some water on the glass and turned the wipers on. The driver side was perfect, the passenger side had issues. The driver side wiper has a 90 degree stroke, the passenger side wiper had about 120 degree of stroke. That makes the passenger side wiper go off the side of the windshield on both sides of that 1/2 of the windshield. I would have to get another driver side wiper pivot, or modify the existing one. I chose to get another driver side pivot. I just installed that yesterday, I'm happy to report the wipers work great. The only pictures i have is of the pivot bracket. Gene

7015872-12-23-11002.JPG (265 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116554
01/13/12 01:18 AM
01/13/12 01:18 AM
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Freeport IL USA
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pivot bracket installed.

7015876-12-23-11001.JPG (226 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116555
01/13/12 01:21 AM
01/13/12 01:21 AM
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Freeport IL USA
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I did some reinforcing around the pivots. I still need to finish the top of the vent box cover, but that is not a high priority at this point. One last picture. Gene

7015882-12-23-11003.JPG (229 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116556
01/13/12 01:33 AM
01/13/12 01:33 AM
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Thought maybe you guys might want to see what the car looked like a couple weeks ago. Gene

7015901-001.JPG (481 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116557
01/13/12 01:34 AM
01/13/12 01:34 AM
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Front

7015902-003.JPG (320 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116558
01/13/12 01:35 AM
01/13/12 01:35 AM
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driver side

7015904-002.JPG (269 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #1116559
01/13/12 01:41 AM
01/13/12 01:41 AM
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Rear view. The rear bumper is going to look like the front bumper. Between the fenders on the side, under the doors will be a nerf bar on both sides, and I think eventually the car will be painted with a white nose and roof and a blue back 1/2 with the parting line starting about the center of the door and going around the back under the rear window. Next installment-door glass. Gene

7015913-004.JPG (212 downloads)
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #2249846
02/08/17 06:53 PM
02/08/17 06:53 PM
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A bit of update, and to bring it to the top.
Since 1 of 2012, the rear bumper was fabricated like the front bumper. The car went to the Vintage Torquefest in Iowa in May 2012. It has been on the road every summer since. So far, its traveled around 20,000 miles. I did replace the original 3.9 with another 3.9 that was in better shape. It was painted with enamel paint 4 years ago (I'll post pictures of it after the paint). Some of the paint has been touched up, the wheels are now blue, and the front bumper is also blue. The number is for PS 117.

Last June (2016) the car made the trip to CO then up into the Black Hills of SD, around 4,000 miles. We stayed off the interstate as much as we could. The car got 22.8 mpg over the whole trip, and consistanly gets mid 17 mpg combination driving. The V6 will pull it along as fast as you want to go, but it feels like your pushing it above 75-80. Cruises very nicely at 65-70.

It is a comfortable ride between 40 degrees and about 85. It has heat & defrosters that kick butt, but there are still enough air drafts through the body it make it uncomfortable when the temp is below 40. There is no AC, just windows down. It gets a bit warm above 85, if your stopped for any reason. The car drives great, and it is fun to drive. The V6 5 speed can get a chirp in 3rd if I'm really trying, but usually I'm happy to get a small chirp in 2nd (nearly always, when there are no cops around). Makes it fun, and keeps me out of trouble.
I do have pictures of the heater box, and dash build that happened back in 2011 (I found some pictures on a camera disc).

white & blue coupe 1.jpgwhite & blue coupe 2.jpg
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #2313456
05/30/17 11:15 AM
05/30/17 11:15 AM
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Poorboy, very nice work you did adapting much of the Dakota to this 48 Plymouth. The body lines are nearly identical to my 1940 Chrysler. I am fortunate that the Body on it is in much better condition than what you had to work with.

Very inspriring....thanks for posting this build.

Mike

1940 Chrysler 20.jpg

2008 Challenger SRT8
1940 Chrysler Royal coupe
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #2313902
05/30/17 11:42 PM
05/30/17 11:42 PM
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Mike,
The bottom 6" of the 48 is suppose to flair out to meet the fenders. The 46-48 Mopars are nor running board cars. Mine had the passenger side already cut off by a previous owner, the drivers side was still present, but it was so thin you could bend the metal with your fingers (of course, there were no rockers or floor on either side). I cut the driver side flair off. Rather then go through the effort of reshaping the body flair, I just ran it straight down when I built the new rockers, like the 41 body is. If you look close, you can see the kicker bars under the doors are attached to a flat piece of sheet metal where both the front and rear fenders still have the flair out that was suppose to match the body.

Other then the lower body flair, the two cars are pretty close to being the same. I believe 40 was the first of the "new" design. Then the 41s were slightly revised. 42 was another revision where I think they added the body flair. WWII stopped auto production in Dec 41, and civilian production didn't resume until late 45, which would have been the 46 model year. Very little changes were made between the 42 and the 46-48 model years. 48 was suppose to be a new model, but some issue came up and it was delayed until about mid year, Mopar called the new cars mid 48 or early 49 model year cars. Gene

Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #2314513
06/01/17 11:35 AM
06/01/17 11:35 AM
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Eastern Ontario
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Poorboy, it looks like you re-used the Dakota wiring since you kept the fire wall and floor pan? That would make sense to me to do that.

I am considering using most of the firewall from a 1996 Dakota extended cab long box we found. The floor in the 1940 is very good so I will keep it intact. From this post it looks like I will need to move the eng/trans so that front wheel center to firewall matches what the 1940 is. I will probably frame shorten where you did as well.


Your thoughts?

Mike


2008 Challenger SRT8
1940 Chrysler Royal coupe
Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #2314892
06/01/17 11:41 PM
06/01/17 11:41 PM
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When I did my car, the original floor was nonexistent. The Dakota frame has a kick up behind the cab you will need to address. Since I had no floor, the kick up was not an issue to me, but if you have a good floor, that Dakota frame rises up about 8" (maybe more, or less) just behind the cab and remains that additional 8" higher to the back bumper.

Before I started, I parked the Dakota next to the coupe to compare the placement of things.

With both sets of front tires lined up, if I moved the Dakota cab back on the frame 7" (I believe), that placed both firewalls in line with each other.

I moved the Dakota's drive train (V6, 5 speed in my case) back the same distance. I added a 1/4" plate under both motor mounts and simply moved them back. I was also able to move the trans crossmember back. I had to extend the step the trans crossmember sat on back a couple of inches on one side (I don't remember which side) with a piece of angle iron welded in place. That allowed me to drill new holes for the bolts and the crossmember bolted up like normal on the new extension. I also used the Dakota radiator support. I had to move it back the same distance as the drive train. I had to make new ears to mount the radiator support to. My coupe radiator support was also junk. You will probably want to use your coupes rad support, so how you mount it will likely be different then how I did mine.

I also removed the Dakota front frame horns where kick out in front of the front crossmember. I fabricated new front frame horns inline with the rest of the frame rails from flat 1/8" thick metal. The frame horns only have to support the front bumper.

I shortened the Dakota frame just behind where the cab mounts so the wheel base would match. I also had to cut the Dakota rear frame rails off just behind the rear spring hangers.

It sounds like a lot of work, but once the sheet metal is pulled from the Dakota and the coupe, it should be pretty easy to see what needs to be done.

If the back 1/2 of your frame is good, you may want to consider just using the front 1/2 of the Dakota frame. That would avoid the floor issue with the Dakota frame kick up and your cars good floor pan. I did a front clip on a 39 Plymouth (which was the first with like suspension and frames), the Dakota frame slips inside the 39 frame very nicely at about the firewall. If you cut the Dakota behind the trans crossmember, you should be able to remove your frame's X frame support (if your car still has one) and box between the Dakota and the original frame. You would still need to lift off your body, but afterwards you can keep your original floor pan.

Doing a clip is a pretty serious undertaking. Measure 4 times, make sure you have reference points for length, width, center, and height off the floor, on both the new clip and the old back frame, then cut very slowly. Gene

Re: 48 Plymouth business coupe, Dakota frame, low bucks [Re: poorboy] #2315035
06/02/17 11:22 AM
06/02/17 11:22 AM
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Eastern Ontario
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Poorboy, fantastic information. I think we will be doing a frame splice at the firewall, keeping original frame under the body, per your suggestion.

Next question; You kept all the wiring from the Dakota and transferred to the 48. Did you have any issues, or had to modify slightly? I am thinking it should be easy for most part, hoping the wiring to the 3.9 is same as if a 5.2 was there.

We are going Sunday to buy a 1996 extended cab long box Dakota 3.9 auto. Its on the road plated so it should be a good donor.

Mike


2008 Challenger SRT8
1940 Chrysler Royal coupe
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