Re: 451 low deck
[Re: buck440]
#1114820
11/16/11 01:24 AM
11/16/11 01:24 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221 Branson, Mo.
joedust451
super gas
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super gas
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 5,221
Branson, Mo.
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Quote:
not sure if this is where i ask this question but here we go. guys i was wondering what is all envlved in building a 451 from a 400 besides the grinding of the 440 cranks mains. is there block or cylinder notching involved? pics an all the technical specs would be greatly apreciated. an what kind of power are these capable of?
You need to cut down the counter weights a good .120" to clear, no block prep needed, There is good power to be had in a 451 lowdeck, mine was a very simple build with FTs, XE284H, headers, M1 single, 750dp, 4.10 gears & 4400 stall, in my 75 Duster it pulled off a 10.91 shifting at 5600, race weight was just below 3100 lbs., weight is your worsed enemy, so keep the car light & you'll be happy.
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Re: 451 low deck
[Re: joedust451]
#1114821
11/16/11 01:51 AM
11/16/11 01:51 AM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 295 maryland
buck440
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 295
maryland
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Quote:
Quote:
not sure if this is where i ask this question but here we go. guys i was wondering what is all envlved in building a 451 from a 400 besides the grinding of the 440 cranks mains. is there block or cylinder notching involved? pics an all the technical specs would be greatly apreciated. an what kind of power are these capable of?
You need to cut down the counter weights a good .120" to clear, no block prep needed, There is good power to be had in a 451 lowdeck, mine was a very simple build with FTs, XE284H, headers, M1 single, 750dp, 4.10 gears & 4400 stall, in my 75 Duster it pulled off a 10.91 shifting at 5600, race weight was just below 3100 lbs., weight is your worsed enemy, so keep the car light & you'll be happy.
not a problem my duster weighed 2860 with a iron headed 383 in it thanks for the info.
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Re: 451 low deck
[Re: buck440]
#1114824
11/16/11 06:51 AM
11/16/11 06:51 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
master
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master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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Some background on the 451 "B". I think much of the success of the 451 combination was from articles in Chrysler Power magazine in the late 1980's. They were putting turned down 440 cranks in with stock cast pistons milled for the compression height. Because of the shorter deck height the pistons weighed less than a 440 so the engines would RPM good and were cheap to build, considering no one wanted 400 blocks, they were much cheaper than buying a 440. One of the first failures was the piston pin pulling out of the stock cast piston at sustained high rpm. So custom (at the time) forged pistons were used and I think the custom pistons also allowed running the longer 440 rods. At this point 451 "B" had the same stroke and rod length (and about the same bore size as a 0.060" over 440), but with pistons that weighed about 1/2 as much as the 440 piston. The lighter weight pistons also reduced the stress on the crank and rods. So at the time the big deal was the low cost of the 400 block and light weight pistons. The "B" engine may also have some strength advantages over the 440 "RB" with shorter cylinders they should be stiffer, the shorter deck height uses shorter pushrods (stiffer and weigh less),the smaller main bearing size reduces friction and allows more material in the main webbing and caps, but that's usually not a problem on a 440, but the difference is usually mentioned. Another issue is the shorter deck height "B" engine at 9.98" compared to a 440 "RB" at 10.725" results in the "B" engine being slightly narrower so it fits easier in A-Body cars. Anyhow, 500 HP is easy with decent flowing heads and a mild cam. With better heads, and some cam 600 HP is not too hard to make. 700+HP is possible with good aftermarket heads and a bigger roller cam, but at this level you will want a stronger than stock crank and rods, so larger strokers are usually built. The 500" "B" stroker with 4.15" crank still uses the longer 6.768" rods and a pretty short compression height piston requiring oil ring supports. This is a nice combination for a higher winding 7,000+ RPM engine. The 4.25" stroker 512" kits use a shorter rod, and are really nice for a street engine that does not need to spin 7,000 RPM.
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Re: 451 low deck
[Re: buck440]
#1114825
11/16/11 04:05 PM
11/16/11 04:05 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,177 ill
dennismopar73
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,177
ill
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I have seen friends Duster go 9.70s with 451, stock eddie rpm w/452 heads ran 10.2/10-30s stock rods, (aries pistons tho.) 430 gear 33 tall tire,, oo the motor stayed together some 10 years
Last edited by dennismopar73; 11/16/11 04:06 PM.
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Re: 451 low deck
[Re: buck440]
#1114831
11/17/11 11:56 AM
11/17/11 11:56 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,025 S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,025
S.E. Michigan
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I like mine alot, I built it at home, and it does pretty much what I wanted it to do. PM me if you have any kind of specific questions you don't want to post, but it's all be covered pretty well. The way I look at it is: If you like 440s, then you will love the 451 low deck. It acts similar to a bored out 440 in some ways, but seems to like RPM maybe slightly little more...it is smaller on the outside...gives more room for big headers, and more room for taller intake manifolds. No better use for an old steel 440 crank with trashed mains
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: 451 low deck
[Re: Biginchmopar]
#1114833
11/17/11 10:21 PM
11/17/11 10:21 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 295 maryland
buck440
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 295
maryland
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Quote:
All the work is in the crankshaft.
Mine makes 525hp 500tq at the rear wheels and is street driven on a regular basis.
so theres no block notching or a nothing like that?
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Re: 451 low deck
[Re: buck440]
#1114836
11/18/11 12:08 AM
11/18/11 12:08 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,547 Syracuse,NY
CompWedgeEngines
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,547
Syracuse,NY
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Here is one I recently did....you'll notice the chamfer on the inner crank throws. This must be done to clear some block casting in those areas. You can also gring the block to help clearance this. It is also possible to put a 440 crank in with no or minimal crank work, but a lot of grinding in the upper saddle areas. A poor mans stroker is possible this way, but its not the best way in my opinion. I did one with a cast 440 crank to see what it involved, and didnt care for it much myself.
RIP Monte Smith
Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality.
WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.
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