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Re: high nickel content blocks?? [Re: John_Kunkel] #1093385 10/15/11 12:40 AM 10/15/11 12:40 AM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 10,234 Someplace you aren't S SomeCarGuy I Live Here
SomeCarGuy I Live Here S Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 10,234 Someplace you aren't	Quote: Quote: There's a place where you can send a chunk of metal (ore) to be assayed for content. Wouldn't be difficult to send em 2 different minute chunks from 2 different blocks to be analyzed. No idea on the cost or even the company name but it could be found if a person wanted to get serious about this IIRC, that's what MA did and their conclusion was "While the blocks cast after 1976 do not appear to be "thin wall" castings, they do appear to be cast from a material which is inferior to the earlier castings. It could have been this knowledge that led the MP engineers to caution racers against using the later blocks." Now now John, these guys who haven't tested anything know that CAN'T be true. Their naked eye tests are far superior-because they say so.

Re: high nickel content blocks?? [Re: John_Kunkel] #1093386 10/15/11 02:16 AM 10/15/11 02:16 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,092 Oregon A AndyF I Win
AndyF I Win A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 31,092 Oregon	I wrote that MA article. What I did was cut chunks of cast iron off of different blocks and then had the material tested for hardness. We only checked hardness, not a chemical analysis. The material in the later blocks measured softer than the early blocks. In some cases, the later blocks were quite a bit softer. Eberg talked to an engineer at Chrysler who told us that the material specification for the blocks had not changed over the years. So officially we have a mystery. But my conclusion, based on my testing, is that the material did change over the years and that the engineer Eberg talked to was unaware of the changes. From the little bit that I know of Chrysler engineering, I wouldn't expect an engineer today to know exactly what the casting material was 45 years ago. As for the original question about high nickel blocks, I really doubt the factory ever messed around with the casting alloy. Those are big, expensive casting lines and the production managers are not going to go to the expense of changing the alloy just so some racers can have strong blocks. It would cost $$$ to change a plant over to a different alloy so I doubt it ever happened. They might have had some small outside shop cast a few parts from a different alloy, but I doubt that the production lines were ever changed over to make race blocks.

Re: high nickel content blocks?? [Re: AndyF] #1093387 10/15/11 02:40 AM 10/15/11 02:40 AM
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado 451Mopar master
451Mopar master Joined: May 2008 Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado	All I can say is it was alot harder to drill and tap my '68 cast date 440 for 1/2" oil pickup than my 400 block? Maybe the drill bit was just dull from doing the 400 block first?

Re: high nickel content blocks?? [Re: 451Mopar] #1093388 10/15/11 11:59 AM 10/15/11 11:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,791 Big Sky Country M MO_PA top fuel
MO_PA top fuel M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,791 Big Sky Country	For what it's worth! GM supposedly cast high nickel blocks. http://www.ehow.com/how_7636437_identify-high-nickel-block-chevy.html

Re: high nickel content blocks?? [Re: DPelletier] #1093389 10/15/11 12:04 PM 10/15/11 12:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,103 A Banana Republic near you. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,103 A Banana Republic near you.	Quote: Yeah, I know..... There should be an Urban Myth section in the Archives where we could put some of this stuff and then we could just link it instead of typing...... Let's see, we could start out with the following;- thick/thinwall castings - one of my personal favorites; '70 Coronet grills came from the Edsel! Dave They didn't ?

Re: high nickel content blocks?? [Re: AndyF] #1093390 10/15/11 05:09 PM 10/15/11 05:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 26,015 Rio Linda, CA John_Kunkel Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 26,015 Rio Linda, CA	Quote: As for the original question about high nickel blocks, I really doubt the factory ever messed around with the casting alloy. Those are big, expensive casting lines and the production managers are not going to go to the expense of changing the alloy just so some racers can have strong blocks. It would cost $$$ to change a plant over to a different alloy so I doubt it ever happened. They might have had some small outside shop cast a few parts from a different alloy, but I doubt that the production lines were ever changed over to make race blocks. Back in the sixties my local race machine shop (M&M Speed Engineering in Sacramento) had a Hemi block that was being prepped for Chuck Poole's A-100 wheel-stander...it was sitting on the floor next to the door and everybody who came in was invited to try to lift just one end of it. I've wrestled a few Hemi blocks and I could tell a big difference in the weight of it. Story was it was a high-nickel block that came to Chuck from Garlits who got it out the back door of the factory. It was too heavy for Garlits' dragster but was ideal for the rear motor in the wheel-stander. The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway

Re: high nickel content blocks?? [Re: John_Kunkel] #1093391 10/15/11 09:56 PM 10/15/11 09:56 PM
Joined: May 2005 Posts: 4,761 Florida BDW master
BDW master Joined: May 2005 Posts: 4,761 Florida	Probably not due to Nickel content, there's only 10-15% difference in the pure states compared to cast iron. So even if it was 100% nickel, only 30-50lb difference. "High" nickel content block might weigh 5 lbs more? Maybe extra ribbing / material? http://www.simetric.co.uk/si_metals.htm

Re: high nickel content blocks?? [Re: JohnRR] #1093392 10/15/11 10:39 PM 10/15/11 10:39 PM
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 15,134 Kelowna, B.C. Canada D DPelletier I Live Here
DPelletier I Live Here D Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 15,134 Kelowna, B.C. Canada	Quote: Quote: Yeah, I know..... There should be an Urban Myth section in the Archives where we could put some of this stuff and then we could just link it instead of typing...... Let's see, we could start out with the following;- thick/thinwall castings - one of my personal favorites; '70 Coronet grills came from the Edsel! Dave They didn't ? ....no, they didn't Dave 1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 1974 'Cuda 2008 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Ram 3500 Diesel 2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel 2003 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Durango Limited [url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]

Re: high nickel content blocks?? [Re: AndyF] #1093393 10/16/11 11:13 AM 10/16/11 11:13 AM
Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 126 wi. R Rosco member
Rosco member R Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 126 wi.	Maybe the water jacket of the block was filled?

Re: high nickel content blocks?? [Re: Rosco] #1093394 10/16/11 02:57 PM 10/16/11 02:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,379 Houston,Tx. L Lee446 pro stock
Lee446 pro stock L Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,379 Houston,Tx.	I can only tell my one time experience with a "high nickle" block. I had picked up a 66 440 block to build. I had it hot tanked and it came out looking almost silver looking, way more than any other Mopar block I ever saw. I took it to my friends shop to be bored and honed and he said it was the hardest to bore 440 that he had ever done and he was a 90% Mopar shop, he said it also took more effort to hone properly. What this means?, beats me! We had always heard of the high nickle blocks and attributed it to that, but your guess is as good as mine!!

Re: high nickel content blocks?? [Re: Lee446] #1093395 10/20/11 11:10 PM 10/20/11 11:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 893 Tustin, CA P pishta super stock
pishta super stock P Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 893 Tustin, CA	Ford would do a hardness test (that little divot test, hit a punch with the same force and measure the divot, smaller the harder) And put those blocks to the side for their hi end motors. Doubt they ever changed the material, maybe just different lots or temperatures. Even them metallurgy probably started pinching pennies late in the game. Modern Chrysler stuff cast at their Mexico foundry was having QC issues too.

Re: high nickel content blocks?? [Re: pishta] #1093396 10/20/11 11:23 PM 10/20/11 11:23 PM
Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 4,765 Q quick77rt Parts Problem
quick77rt Parts Problem Q Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 4,765	This is a HN X block NOS until just bored, this one has the HN main caps as listed in some of the older books. Yes ive seen them refered to as high tin, but mostly high nickle. Oddly Ive two matching NOS blocks, one has the HN caps in blue and the other caps are not marked and no paint. The blue dont last past wd40 or carb cleaner, so id say most never seen the NOS blue HN caps. 6881185-DSC07247[1].JPG (143 downloads)

Re: high nickel content blocks?? [Re: quick77rt ] #1093397 10/20/11 11:24 PM 10/20/11 11:24 PM
Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 4,765 Q quick77rt Parts Problem
quick77rt Parts Problem Q Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 4,765	Caps 6881188-DSC07157[1].JPG (160 downloads)

Re: high nickel content blocks?? [Re: quick77rt ] #1093398 10/20/11 11:32 PM 10/20/11 11:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 4,765 Q quick77rt Parts Problem
quick77rt Parts Problem Q Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 4,765	As for the 360-s I use 71 72 blocks and im told they are harder to machine overall bore then 77/78 blocks....Id almost beleive a guy who does it day in day out.

Re: high nickel content blocks?? [Re: runner12] #1093399 10/21/11 10:57 AM 10/21/11 10:57 AM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,544 Syracuse,NY CompWedgeEngines master
CompWedgeEngines master Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,544 Syracuse,NY	If you ever ran a cylinder hone, and bored and or honed a cross sectiom of Mopar cylinders and blocks, you may have more questions than answers. If you took a 66 block, a 69 or 70 block, s 76 block and lets say a early " good" Megablock, you would know what i mean. There are some distinct differences tupically. RIP Monte Smith Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality. WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.

Re: high nickel content blocks?? [Re: CompWedgeEngines] #1093400 10/21/11 11:07 AM 10/21/11 11:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,943 Holly/MI D Dean_Kuzluzski master
Dean_Kuzluzski master D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,943 Holly/MI	Quote: If you ever ran a cylinder hone, and bored and or honed a cross sectiom of Mopar cylinders and blocks, you may have more questions than answers. If you took a 66 block, a 69 or 70 block, s 76 block and lets say a early " good" Megablock, you would know what i mean. There are some distinct differences tupically. OK, throw us a bone.........Differences?? Softness in later years?? R.I.P.- Gary "Coop" Davis 02/09/68-05/13/04

Re: high nickel content blocks?? [Re: John_Kunkel] #1093401 10/21/11 10:12 PM 10/21/11 10:12 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,323 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,323 Bend,OR USA	Quote: Quote: As for the original question about high nickel blocks, I really doubt the factory ever messed around with the casting alloy. Those are big, expensive casting lines and the production managers are not going to go to the expense of changing the alloy just so some racers can have strong blocks. It would cost $$$ to change a plant over to a different alloy so I doubt it ever happened. They might have had some small outside shop cast a few parts from a different alloy, but I doubt that the production lines were ever changed over to make race blocks. Back in the sixties my local race machine shop (M&M Speed Engineering in Sacramento) had a Hemi block that was being prepped for Chuck Poole's A-100 wheel-stander...it was sitting on the floor next to the door and everybody who came in was invited to try to lift just one end of it. I've wrestled a few Hemi blocks and I could tell a big difference in the weight of it. Story was it was a high-nickel block that came to Chuck from Garlits who got it out the back door of the factory. It was too heavy for Garlits' dragster but was ideal for the rear motor in the wheel-stander. That was probally one of the after market race only top fuel blocks that Mopar made for top fuel and funny cars right when the after market aluminum blocks where coming out from Milidon and Donovan Kieth Black had a bunch of them for a long time, thicker main webs but not sure on the cylinder walls or materials I'm thinking late 1960s, maybe early 1970 and after Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: high nickel content blocks?? [Re: Cab_Burge] #1093402 10/21/11 10:40 PM 10/21/11 10:40 PM
Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 4,765 Q quick77rt Parts Problem
quick77rt Parts Problem Q Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 4,765	It seems someone liked to play with the core boxes, most know the X blocks pan rails are filled on the 3 center and thick on the ends over oem amoung other things. Check this pic out, a 340 block dated 1969 4.04 bore and more meat then a X block in some areas. Also notice the pins on the freeze plugs. I would guess if one went to this much trouble with this block, the material used was either as good as needed or changed to make it so. Maybe just more meat in some areas were enough???? Look at the lower red circle, the pan rail is just not filled it starts at the edge of the bore and goes up to the rail area 6882691-@77RT.jpg (144 downloads)

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