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Re: Car starts when key is RELEASED, why? [Re: MoparforLife] #1077414
09/19/11 06:32 PM
09/19/11 06:32 PM
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Central TX
roe Offline
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Quote:

Cheat - install a push button switch to the 2 terminals on the starter relay and mount on the lip of the dash. Yeah I know it is not right but it works and is a semi theft deterrent. Turn key and push button to start.




Thats how I have mine right now because of ignition issues. Mine has and intermittent "no start" symptom from the key. Sometimes it will fire right up from the key, and sometimes I turn the key and it doesn't even crank. When it acts up I just turn the key to run and hit my push button. I do want to get it straightened out though. I dont like not knowing why its acting up. I cant figure out what the problem is, any tips?



1971 Plymouth Satellite
408/904 8 3/4 3.23 SG
Re: Car starts when key is RELEASED, why? [Re: roe] #1077415
09/19/11 08:12 PM
09/19/11 08:12 PM
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Sunny South Florida
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when my RC did that, it ended up being a bad fusible link. i bypassed it with a switch under the dash.


"When Tyranny Becomes Law, Rebellion Becomes Duty"

Re: Car starts when key is RELEASED, why? [Re: Golden-Arm] #1077416
09/19/11 08:29 PM
09/19/11 08:29 PM
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Chino Valley
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Go to yer wirin' diagrams, ya swabbies!
Ya cen see that therrrs a diff circuit be supplying the coil in run 'n start. Iffn you ain't got spark in start, that circuit be caddywumpus...

Re: Car starts when key is RELEASED, why? [Re: JohnRR] #1077417
09/19/11 08:44 PM
09/19/11 08:44 PM
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The Historic Hudson Valley
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

More info ... what year is the car , electronic or points ?? before I can make an ASSumption of the problem .




70 E body - electronic ignition.




Does it have a 2 prong Ballast or a 4 prong ?




2

Re: Car starts when key is RELEASED, why? [Re: RodStRace] #1077418
09/19/11 08:48 PM
09/19/11 08:48 PM
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The Historic Hudson Valley
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Quote:

Go to yer wirin' diagrams, ya swabbies!
Ya cen see that therrrs a diff circuit be supplying the coil in run 'n start. Iffn you ain't got spark in start, that circuit be caddywumpus...




So Rod, you with Pacnorthcuda that it's the circuit to the coil?
I don't speak Pirate-ese.

Do you agree with my test to check when cranking at the coil?

Re: Car starts when key is RELEASED, why? [Re: MONC] #1077419
09/19/11 10:07 PM
09/19/11 10:07 PM
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Kirkland, Washington
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Quote:

Quote:

Go to yer wirin' diagrams, ya swabbies!
Ya cen see that therrrs a diff circuit be supplying the coil in run 'n start. Iffn you ain't got spark in start, that circuit be caddywumpus...




So Rod, you with Pacnorthcuda that it's the circuit to the coil?
I don't speak Pirate-ese.

Do you agree with my test to check when cranking at the coil?




I would start earlier in the circuit. Hook up a test light to the drivers side of the ballast resister, position it so you can see it through the windshield. Crank. Light? if Yes, check the other terminal on the same side (I am assuming at this point you have a 4 prong resister), crank Light? No? Thats a Problem!!! Then do the same thing on the interior side of the bulkhead connector (trace the dead wire--its green I think) does it light? Yes? clean/repair the bulkhead male/female spade connections. No? damn!!! Might me an ignition switch problem.

Re: Car starts when key is RELEASED, why? [Re: MONC] #1077420
09/19/11 10:19 PM
09/19/11 10:19 PM
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Canada
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Is it an orange box?


CrAzYMoPaRGuY
Re: Car starts when key is RELEASED, why? [Re: MONC] #1077421
09/20/11 05:46 AM
09/20/11 05:46 AM
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U.S.S.A.
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Quote:

Quote:

Go to yer wirin' diagrams, ya swabbies!
Ya cen see that therrrs a diff circuit be supplying the coil in run 'n start. Iffn you ain't got spark in start, that circuit be caddywumpus...




So Rod, you with Pacnorthcuda that it's the circuit to the coil?
I don't speak Pirate-ese.

Do you agree with my test to check when cranking at the coil?




Yes, if there is no voltage at the coil during cranking it will not start. New engine harness ?

Re: Car starts when key is RELEASED, why? [Re: JohnRR] #1077422
09/20/11 08:10 AM
09/20/11 08:10 AM
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Ontario, Canada
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I had the same problem just Sunday in a 340 Cuda that had added Mopar electronic ignition.
It therefore had the 4 prong ballast resistor.
It had never done this before, but crank and crank and release the key it would start, otherwise not.
Checked some wiring leading to the ballast resistor and noticed one of the top terminal connectors was loose.
Crimped it tighter and 'voila' started and ran like it always did.
Hopefully it's something simple like this was.

Re: Car starts when key is RELEASED, why? [Re: mccannix] #1077423
09/20/11 12:40 PM
09/20/11 12:40 PM
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The Historic Hudson Valley
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Thanks for all the test checks.
Looks like rain for a couple of days, but will keep you apprised.

Hopefully it will be like McCannix stated, and a simple tightening of a connection, we'll see.

Re: Car starts when key is RELEASED, why? [Re: MONC] #1077424
09/21/11 02:01 AM
09/21/11 02:01 AM
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ohio
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Had a similar problem & wound up being an orange ignition box. Tried another one and solved the problem.

Re: Car starts when key is RELEASED, why? [Re: 2264PLY] #1077425
09/21/11 05:27 PM
09/21/11 05:27 PM
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The Historic Hudson Valley
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I have already replaced the following:

ignition switch
orange box
starter relay
ballast resistor
coil
cap / rotor
plugs

I will check juice to coil when cranking first.
Then start checking easiest connections ( ie ballast resistor),
then head to the bulkhead connections.

Re: Car starts when key is RELEASED, why? [Re: MONC] #1077426
09/22/11 02:57 AM
09/22/11 02:57 AM
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Aurora, Colorado
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Battery cables and grounds.
At the neutral safety relay, disconnect the spade terminal so you can test the voltage at the ignition coil without cranking the engine. You will need to have someone hold the key in the start position while you check the voltage. You should have 11+ volts. Reconnect the wire at the relay, and re-check while cranking. If it is 7 volts or less you have too much resistance (voltage drop) in the battery cables.
Also adding additional ground wires from the ECU to the battery, and from the battery to the chassis helps.

Re: Car starts when key is RELEASED, why? [Re: 451Mopar] #1077427
09/22/11 08:00 AM
09/22/11 08:00 AM
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Lubbock, TX
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Had a simular problem last year on my 5th Avenue w/318. May sound strange, but it turned out to be the distributor. The bushings where loose, causing the air gap to be almost closed at times, open enough to start others. I run an HEI, so no ballast or ECU. Worth a try.


Eric
Re: Car starts when key is RELEASED, why? [Re: Erics5th] #1077428
09/22/11 12:13 PM
09/22/11 12:13 PM
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Newfoundland
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Why not try a jumper lead from the +side of battery to pos side of coil and see if it starts every time. Then work your way backwards to the fault . It could be that the starting motor is drawing way too much power and not enough left to fire the coil. I've seen problems like this many many times.

Re: Car starts when key is RELEASED, why? *UPDATE* [Re: mopar_man] #1077429
09/24/11 04:04 PM
09/24/11 04:04 PM
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The Historic Hudson Valley
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Ok, so this is what I have tested:

With a test light on positive side of coil, it lights up in the RUN and START (cranking) position.

Same result when testing DS ballast resistor ( 2 prong). Lights up in RUN and START position.

With spade disconnected from relay coil reads 7 volts in RUN and 10.3 in START ( cranking) position.

With spade CONNECTED on relay coil reads 7 volts in RUN and 8.5 in cranking. ( not sure if this is because I am losing voltage due to the number of cranking tests I've done today).

At rest battery was reading 12.1 and when running a little over 13 volts.

I also checked the ballast resistor connections, the voltage regulator connections as well as the bulk head connections.
I cleaned and applied dialectric grease to all.

Car is STILL starting in RUN and not START .

Thoughts?

Re: Car starts when key is RELEASED, why? *UPDATE* [Re: MONC] #1077430
09/24/11 05:50 PM
09/24/11 05:50 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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Quote:

Thoughts?


it "runs" so the pickup/coil/ecu (hard components) are good and the ECU is grounded. Check the wiring schematics how it's wired as only the coil positive primary terminal and the "point" of the ECU pentastar connector (4 pin) need fire in start (ign2) as the pickup triggers the ECU which opens the coil pri makeing the secondary fire. Either one of those hard components is not getting fire in "start" or in "start" it is mis wired and something is getting grounded that should not be grounding.


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Re: Car starts when key is RELEASED, why? *UPDATE* [Re: RapidRobert] #1077431
09/24/11 06:21 PM
09/24/11 06:21 PM
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Eden, Texas
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so what voltage do you see at the coil when you are actually cranking it over?

Sounds like you either have a large voltage drop, or the battery is basically discharged.

Last edited by Strawdawg; 09/24/11 06:22 PM.

Steve
Re: Car starts when key is RELEASED, why? *UPDATE* [Re: Strawdawg] #1077432
09/24/11 06:52 PM
09/24/11 06:52 PM
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The Historic Hudson Valley
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Quote:

so what voltage do you see at the coil when you are actually cranking it over?

Sounds like you either have a large voltage drop, or the battery is basically discharged.




8.5 volts at coil when cranking.

Re: Car starts when key is RELEASED, why? *UPDATE* [Re: RapidRobert] #1077433
09/24/11 06:54 PM
09/24/11 06:54 PM
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The Historic Hudson Valley
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Quote:

Quote:

Thoughts?


it "runs" so the pickup/coil/ecu (hard components) are good and the ECU is grounded. Check the wiring schematics how it's wired as only the coil positive primary terminal and the "point" of the ECU pentastar connector (4 pin) need fire in start (ign2) as the pickup triggers the ECU which opens the coil pri makeing the secondary fire. Either one of those hard components is not getting fire in "start" or in "start" it is mis wired and something is getting grounded that should not be grounding.




I replaced the ECU and the coil , and checked I was getting a good ground at the ECU when I changed it.

But I understand what you are saying, something is not getting fire in the start. I don't think it's miswired because it was working fine before.

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