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Broken valve guides at aluminium heads (updated) #1062173 08/24/11 03:41 PM 08/24/11 03:41 PM
Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 179 Up in the North and Far Away A AutoEngineer OP member
AutoEngineer OP member A Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 179 Up in the North and Far Away	I was yesterday eveneing visting at my buddy's garage after he had found some metal particles from used oil when he had changed the motor oil. Found out that problem was caused by broken valve guides and pulled the heads up from the engine. Find enclosed a picture from broken guides. There was 4 broken guides. Asked from my buddy had he checked the valve guide clearances before installation? Answer was no. Has anyone else had similar problems with these heads and have you used some standard replacement guides or specially machined to fit the 440Source heads? 6793121-Brokenvalveguides.jpg (948 downloads)

Re: Broken valve guides at 440 Source heads [Re: AutoEngineer] #1062174 08/24/11 04:11 PM 08/24/11 04:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,942 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,942 U.S.S.A.

Re: Broken valve guides at 440 Source heads [Re: JohnRR] #1062175 08/24/11 04:17 PM 08/24/11 04:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 28,312 Cincinnati, Ohio Challenger 1 Too Many Posts
Challenger 1 Too Many Posts Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 28,312 Cincinnati, Ohio	Quote:

Re: Broken valve guides at 440 Source heads [Re: Challenger 1] #1062176 08/24/11 06:53 PM 08/24/11 06:53 PM
Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 2,327 Glendale, AZ 6 69L78Nova Banned. Forever.
69L78Nova Banned. Forever. 6 Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 2,327 Glendale, AZ	Wow! A while back, I was actually considering buying a pair of Source heads for when I build the 440 for my Charger. But after more and more horror stories, Ill have my 906s redone! At least they were made in America 1969 Nova 454/M21/3.31 Mild mid-11 second weekend cruiser 1994 F150 XLT Super Cab 2WD 5.0/4R70W/3.55 (Daily driver)

Re: Broken valve guides at 440 Source heads [Re: Challenger 1] #1062177 08/24/11 07:11 PM 08/24/11 07:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,936 Holly/MI D Dean_Kuzluzski master
Dean_Kuzluzski master D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,936 Holly/MI	Quote: Quote: R.I.P.- Gary "Coop" Davis 02/09/68-05/13/04

Re: Broken valve guides at 440 Source heads [Re: Dean_Kuzluzski] #1062178 08/24/11 07:15 PM 08/24/11 07:15 PM
Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 30,424 Florida STAYcation dOc ! The village idiot's idiot
dOc ! The village idiot's idiot Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 30,424 Florida STAYcation	CHECK 4 valve-guide clearance ? .... so are some still way-tight ?

Re: Broken valve guides at 440 Source heads [Re: AutoEngineer] #1062179 08/24/11 07:39 PM 08/24/11 07:39 PM
Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 1,047 Arizona 6 68CoronetRT super stock
68CoronetRT super stock 6 Joined: Aug 2004 Posts: 1,047 Arizona

Re: Broken valve guides at 440 Source heads [Re: 68CoronetRT] #1062180 08/24/11 07:48 PM 08/24/11 07:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,807 North Dakota Azzkikrcuda top fuel
Azzkikrcuda top fuel Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,807 North Dakota	What Size cam? Might want to check valve retainer to guide clearance.

Re: Broken valve guides at 440 Source heads [Re: Azzkikrcuda] #1062181 08/24/11 08:26 PM 08/24/11 08:26 PM
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 643 southern conn 1 1969gtx mopar
1969gtx mopar 1 Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 643 southern conn	or over rev. 1965 A/FX Plymouth 9.50 et @139 mph 1965 A/FX awb plymouth flashback [email]10.26@129mph[/email] mph on pump gas 426 hemi 1969 GTX Hemi 4 speed 12.50 et @ 112mph in F.A.S.T TRIM 1970 GTX 4406pac 4 speed 11.05 @126.9 mph in F.A.S.T TRIM http://www.AFXER.com

Re: Broken valve guides at 440 Source heads [Re: 1969gtx] #1062182 08/24/11 08:45 PM 08/24/11 08:45 PM
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 7,194 Harrisburg, Pa. screamindriver master
screamindriver master Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 7,194 Harrisburg, Pa.	OK guys...Quit eating the popcorn,whistling, and sitting on the couch drinking a cold one and just tell him what you're really thinking...

Re: Broken valve guides at 440 Source heads [Re: 1969gtx] #1062183 08/24/11 08:49 PM 08/24/11 08:49 PM
Joined: Apr 2006 Posts: 3,675 Akron, Ohio U.S.A. roadhazard master
roadhazard master Joined: Apr 2006 Posts: 3,675 Akron, Ohio U.S.A.	with the above 2 posts Classic retainer to guide clearance or over rev causing valve float. Look how it smashed the valve seal down over the guide NOT the heads fault IMO, it's an assembly issue. Nothing special about the guides and should be a fairly easy fix for a competent machine shop.

Re: Broken valve guides at 440 Source heads [Re: screamindriver] #1062184 08/24/11 08:50 PM 08/24/11 08:50 PM
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 70 Murrieta, CA B BlownHemiCharger member
BlownHemiCharger member B Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 70 Murrieta, CA	All do respect, maybe its not due to poor heads. Maybe the clearances were just to close and at higher RPM's they where smashing the bottom of the retanier. This could of been the assemblers mistake, always check these clearances. Some guides need to be machined down a tad. But just my BlownHemiCharger was here!!

Re: Broken valve guides at 440 Source heads [Re: BlownHemiCharger] #1062185 08/24/11 09:11 PM 08/24/11 09:11 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 12,291 Kent, Wa 340SHORTY Truck Nut
340SHORTY Truck Nut Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 12,291 Kent, Wa	I see some positive seal valve stem guide seals.. I had a curcumstance on a brand X engine.. they sealed so well that the valve stems would bind in the guide do tolack of lube.. we changed them to normal seals and those cured the problem.... I am truckless..

Re: Broken valve guides at 440 Source heads [Re: 340SHORTY] #1062186 08/24/11 09:49 PM 08/24/11 09:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 20,460 Eagle, Idaho Neil The Doctor is in.
Neil The Doctor is in. Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 20,460 Eagle, Idaho	How come the one to the right looks fine and the two broken ones are mangled? I'd figure that the one to the right would be showing some signs of abuse even if it isn't busted off? All valve springs and keepers are the same (or should be). Tight valve clearances cause the valve to stick and then the piston hits the valve and bends it. Never heard of a sticky valve causing the top of a guide to shear clean off like that. Even a 'stuck' valve will pull right out of the guide. They can't weld themselves together.

Re: Broken valve guides at 440 Source heads [Re: 69L78Nova] #1062187 08/24/11 09:49 PM 08/24/11 09:49 PM
Joined: May 2003 Posts: 6,558 Downtown Roebuck Ont Twostick Still wishing...
Twostick Still wishing... Joined: May 2003 Posts: 6,558 Downtown Roebuck Ont	Quote: Wow! A while back, I was actually considering buying a pair of Source heads for when I build the 440 for my Charger. But after more and more horror stories, Ill have my 906s redone! At least they were made in America And if you don't check retainer to guide clearance, lifter pre-load on a juice cam or don't know enough to look at the tach, your American made 906's can look like that too. As long as you don't buy them from whoever set/didn't set those ones up, you shouldn't have any trouble. Kevin

Re: Broken valve guides at 440 Source heads [Re: Neil] #1062188 08/24/11 10:06 PM 08/24/11 10:06 PM
Joined: May 2003 Posts: 6,558 Downtown Roebuck Ont Twostick Still wishing...
Twostick Still wishing... Joined: May 2003 Posts: 6,558 Downtown Roebuck Ont	Quote: How come the one to the right looks fine and the two broken ones are mangled? I'd figure that the one to the right would be showing some signs of abuse even if it isn't busted off? All valve springs and keepers are the same (or should be). Tight valve clearances cause the valve to stick and then the piston hits the valve and bends it. Never heard of a sticky valve causing the top of a guide to shear clean off like that. If he didn't check guide clearance he not likely checked installed height either. If the spring pressures are different valve to valve, some will float before others which could explain this carnage. A simple disassemble and inspect which should be done to ANY parts before use could have prevented this. Kevin

Re: Broken valve guides at 440 Source heads [Re: Twostick] #1062189 08/24/11 10:20 PM 08/24/11 10:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 28,312 Cincinnati, Ohio Challenger 1 Too Many Posts
Challenger 1 Too Many Posts Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 28,312 Cincinnati, Ohio	The 2 broken guides shown are flipped upside down, you can't see the top of it. Those pieces were loose, the ends are gonna get beat up.

Re: Broken valve guides at 440 Source heads [Re: Challenger 1] #1062190 08/25/11 12:00 AM 08/25/11 12:00 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 20,460 Eagle, Idaho Neil The Doctor is in.
Neil The Doctor is in. Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 20,460 Eagle, Idaho	You are right, those are being shown upsidedown. I thought the top of the seals were hammered off and then they slid down the guide.

Re: Broken valve guides at 440 Source heads [Re: Challenger 1] #1062191 08/25/11 12:01 AM 08/25/11 12:01 AM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 21,345 Marysville, O-H-I-O 70Cuda383 Too Many Posts
70Cuda383 Too Many Posts Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 21,345 Marysville, O-H-I-O	Just to play devils advocate here... Didn't the edelbrock rpm heads have the same problems? Photobucket sucks

Re: Broken valve guides at 440 Source heads [Re: roadhazard] #1062192 08/25/11 12:16 AM 08/25/11 12:16 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,942 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 74,942 U.S.S.A.	Quote: Classic retainer to guide clearance or over rev causing valve float. Look how it smashed the valve seal down over the guide Look AGAIN , the pieces are flipped over, the part that is pointing up is where it broke off the rest of the guide. Look at the unbroken guide next to it , not a mark on it ... edit ... I see others brought this up also ... Last edited by JohnRR; 08/25/11 12:20 AM.

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