It was based on a 6.1...now it is discontinued.

Someway, somehow I knew this was going to happen a few years ago. Luckily I stocked up on the then new, now old 5.7 and 6.1 blocks.

Hey Zip, How many 6.1 blocks are available for class racer's that windowed a block in the past month or so?

At this time?

Absolutely none, so it's a good thing you grabbed them while you were thinking about it.

Got this from another site

with work being slow for the last couple days, i decided to sign myself up for some "continuing education" with chrysler's training. Cam in block Phase 2. Covers the 3.3/3.8, 5.7/6.1, and 8.4 engines. needless to say, majority of the time was invested in the updates for the new hemi's, codenamed Eagle.

firstly, a lot has changed, we all knew about the variable cam timing, and i quoted the master tech earlier on that topic.
Quote:
all next generation 5.7L engines receive Variable camshaft timing, or VCT. if you are familiar with the system on the Viper 8.4L engine, the one on the 5.7L engine will look familiar. The PCM controls VCT based on a number of inputs. Included in these is an oil temperature sensor to help the PCM determine when to actuate the solenoid on the oil control valve. That is attached to the block behind the timing cover. The PCM operated the valve by means of pulse width modulated signals which can range from zero to 100%. when the pcm is changing cam phasing, pressurized oil flows from a passage in the block into the oil control valve. from there it is directed into one of the two passages in the camshaft number one bearing journal. the oil then flows to one side of the vanes in the camshaft phaser. oil on the other side of the vanes is exhausted via the other camshaft passage. at zero percent duty cycle, the valve directs oil to the advance dise of the vanes, which results in a fully advanced cam phaser. at 100% duty cycle, oil is directed to the retard side. this results in a timing of about 36 degrees BTDC. at 50% oil is directed to both sides, and maintains the current cam phaser position.
Its a very interesting design but apparently only designed to negate the use of the EGR valve. there is performance potential though.


The block has been revised to house the Oil control valve, a duty cycled solenoid placed in the block, facing the back side of the cam sprocket. three new oil passages were added to facilitate the cam phasing, and a much larger #1 cam journal is used as it also is used as an oil passage to the hydraulic cam phaser. the oil pump is new, a higher output than previous models, and is NOT compatible with the previous versions. chrysler said so, and i even tried on an 03 hemi. it will not work. the timing chain is different as well, colored links appear to be gone, replaced with lazer etched rectangles on the links. of course, number of links appears to have changed as well due to sprocket size differences too.

the timing chain tensioner is now a spring loaded piston, not the leaf spring powered tensioner as used before, the tensioner is no longer part of the thrust plate either.

for the most part, the crankshaft appears to be the same as previous versions, connecting rods look similar as well though some early models (like the one i "tested" on) had full floating wrist pins. sources said it was planned, but scrapped early, apparently early production versions made it, but are expeced to all be in the durango hybrid engines.

Pistons: for the most part, nothing ground breaking. shorter piston skirts, less dome, and now 1mm compression rings.

now for the useful stuff.
Cylinder heads. big changes here, new closed chamber heads have smaller chambers (duh) than previous engines , 66.3cc in fact vs 84.9cc. even smaller than the 6.1's with 73.0cc. bolting these on to a previous hemi without modification would result in nearly a 12:1 compression ratio. valves are slightly larger. intake is 2.05" vs 2.00". exhaust is the same. both valves have a longer stem though. new bee hive valve springs, identical on both intake and exhaust are now in use, and seem to mimic what we have been doing in using the 6.1 exhaust springs across all valves. pushrods have changed as well, they are now approximately 4mm longer, putting them very close in length to the 6.1's pushrods.

ports appear to have a 6.1 sized window on the intake side, as well as a 6.1 style D shape on the exhaust. a quick comparisson with a 6.1 exhaust manifold looks like it was nearly a perfect match.

tappets: i wouldnt normally cover this, but i actually made notes in class because of this. they have been revised for higher lift with proper MDS actuation. the stock cams have higher lift, requiring more capacity to collapse in MDS. the new lifters do this constantly in factory form. further more, they are backwards compatible. they will drop right in to an older 5.7 (or any previous hemi built with MDS)

intake manifold: this is a gray area, as there are approximately 4 or 5 different manifolds available for use on the eagle. the trucks use an active intake version where as the cars do not. the active intake allows the ram to have 390 horsepower and 404 ft*lbs of torque by giving it short and long runners in the intake. a very cool design, but nothing groundbreaking, v6's have it as well.

these are the active intake, from the ram, durango (non hybrid) and aspen (non hybrid).

Exhaust manifolds. again, different depending on models, but seem to have a slight advantage over previous engines. looks like they spread a bit more, as well as clearer ports and possibly larger midpipes than the older hemi's.

Eric

Sharadon will be at the race, you can pick there brain there!

Josh

WOW! I havent been on in a couple days and there has been alot of new information. This thread has been very useful and follows the lines of what this forum was set out to be. Keep it coming.

The 6.1 heads have already gone reman...that's what I meant when I said earlier "look what happened with heads already"....a dealer can start with the original part number, follow the supersessions, and that's where they end up.

Let the hoarding begin...
Some things never change

Matt, there was some nice detail in there, and it is all about correct except for one very noticeable error: there's no such thing as a VVT/VCT 6.1. The 6.1 is not in production anymore. It is gone. The 6.4 is the new big dog and it has vct/vvt. 6.4 is the apache engine.

A local machine shop with a lathe could make the cam bearing spacers, if someone wanted to try it. Myself I like the idea of a UGL (unground lobe) camshaft, with the VCT oiling holes omitted, a little better. Reason: The VCT cam has even larger bearing journals than a first generation 5.7/6.1 (which are already huge compared to old stuff)....larger cam core means the cam deflection will be reduced....so I'd really prefer that if possible.....

The caveman way of disabling vct/vvt...the cam phaser is inside the cam sprocket. You take the mechanism apart (it has one NASTY clock spring in there), position it wherever you want, and weld it solid. Done. Put it back together.

AEM controllers can control VVT/VCT also. AEM has been doing it for many years with Hondas and other imports and they have alot of expertise there. So maybe it doesn't have to be disabled at all (other than us traditional hot rodders might think it is a little goofy, and we don't know what to do with it yet because we've never had it before).

Hey Z, Are the 6.1 Aluminum Blocks readily available or are they going by the way side?

Aluminum is no problem, still making them, still shipping, still available. MP to the rescue.

Machined and packaged in Auburn Hills too (support the local economy, etc)

talking to a freind of mine this mourning & was telling him about the inake problin & he said that if there was enouhgt demand for them he'd possible start casting them, he'd need to borrow one to make a patteren off of, he dose the 420 short deck for small blocks now, so he knows what he's doing,& possible looking into the dist. drive for the same,hes quite a genues at this kind of stofe

ive always said..
its much easier to sell a million people something for a dollar..
than it is to sell one person an item that cost a million dollars..

cheapst

if this bes is so great how come no one has listed his web addrest,or eagles or any of the other supplers of heads & parts, i read all of the messages & seen that the intakes are no longer avable & called my buddy in westeren ny so that you guys might be able to get these intakes @ a desent price if the demand is great enought, its not going to be enought if only 2 or 3 wants them to cast them up, any one got any #'s of possibly how many could be sold maybe zippy,

Thanks Hemidup for taking a few minutes to talk to me a few days ago. I picked up a 6.1 on Friday and all my LA stuff will be on ebay soon. After spending my day disassembling it I think I made the right choice.