This is the second rebuilt carburetor that I have disassembled and found that there is no hanger attached between the needle and float. The first carb was a 2GV for my 71 318 Barracuda. This time its an AVS on the the 70 U-code Cuda that I purchased a few months ago. I have yet to run the 440 engine. I contacted the Canadian re-builder about the 2GV and his response was: "We do not supply the hangers on the floats because they cause the units to flood more often". I thought that was nonsense, so I added the hanger. On the AVS, I have no idea who and when it was rebuilt. With the AVS apart you can clearly see that both needles are stuck closed and you have to shake the top assembly violently to get the needles to drop down. I have to believe that originally these carbs all had needle hangers. And now re-builders are taking short cuts. I plan on adding the hangers to both needles.

David

The builder told you correctly, they can be problematic. That said there are basically two opinion groups out there, some say toss them, some say use them. I don't see a noticeable difference either way. The bigger issue these days is leaky floats, even brand new ones can have pin holes in the solder seems, more and more common these days. Another is people buying replacement fuel pumps that look stock but deliver 8-10psi, about twice what a stock needle and seat can handle without blowing open and flooding the bowls.

.02

I don’t use them

Brand new correct Cartèr AVS Floats , where ?

I don't use them. those needles are stuck for some other reason than the "hangers".

Nothing correct I'm aware of, just generic replacements. I reuse originals whenever possible, I hate the Chinese junk that the market offers these days, goes for almost everything made these days.

Roger , Thanx

the mopar avs's had two different floats. the small float (like the current edelbrocks) was used on the small carbs. the HP440's used the large float like what's in the pictures. the bigger carb came with a larger needle and seat also.

Floats - Correct ?

Carter #21-241

Carter #21-245

The service manual spec for a hemi is 7 to 8.5 psi. Even the V8 small block is 5-7psi. 440 is 6 to 7.5psi. You would have to be bending the float tab to push needle off seat.

Yes, I have all of the service manuals, I know what they say.

the HP440's and hemi's had vapor seperators with return lines. the return orifice actually reduced pressure at the carb even though the pump was 8+psi. I've tested this and found it interesting. I bought a new (repop) HP440 pump from mancini and it put out 16psi (!!!!); basically useless.

Where you measure pressure matters. Higher up the motor lower the pressure. You would expect a pressure drop across the vapor separators.

What is more critical is good volumetric flow for the motor needs. Pressure is the means to get that flow.

Also, all 440 do not have vapor separators, and the spec applies to single 4 barrel too.

I have rebuilt several Carter pumps used on Hemi motors with no issues. I know the builder also uses the aftermarket ones when numbers don't matter.

Never had a problem. I just think the statement that the needle can't handle more than 4-5psi not accurate.

I would be looking at quality of the needle and float setting/alignment if a stock pump flooded a carb.

the HP440's and standard 440's use different pumps from the factory. I'm using 3 carter carbs now. one a 4618 on a stock '69 440 and 2 edelbrocks on a ch28. both are running 6+ at the carbs using carter 6903 pumps with some mods to them. to the best of my knowledge there were (maybe still are?) 3 needle and seat combos for the carters afb/avs. .093" is the more common, carter used some .101" on the aftermarket and the .110". I prefer the smaller for driving around. I don't think the small floats (like what edelbrock uses) control the .110" very well. I have the original needle and seats out of the 4618 and they were .110", but had the large float (which I think has better control) and a vapor seperator. I have the original HP pump off my '69 and it "bench" tests at 9psi cold. I tried the .110" in my dual quads and didn't think they drove or performed as well as .093" using small floats. also, I've noticed thru the years a lot of different aftermarket needle and seat configurations for these carbs.

One thing I did not mention above, is that the pressure is measured at the inlet of the carb per service manual and at 500 rpm. Pressure at an outlet of the pump should be higher. It then drops as it climbs the engine, goes through the various twist and turns, and separator. So that pressure rating in SVM is after separator on HP engine. So if a AVS or AFB can handle 8psi on a 426 or 440 at 500 rpm, it can handle it on a smaller engine. You just do not need the volume.

Too little pressure at inlet and you probably do not have volumetric flow for WOT.

My apologies for this thinly veiled for sale ad, but I have 3 AVS parts carbs. I don't want to toss them if they can be used to rebuild others. I need the room in my basement. PM me for details.