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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq) [Re: dIc dOc Deity !] #2568206
10/23/18 05:08 AM
10/23/18 05:08 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,007
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
I Win
Cab_Burge  Offline
I Win
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,007
Bend,OR USA
Originally Posted By Doc Fiberglass
Hi Doug ...how's G ? ... Listen more than talk ? .., that's why the big guy upstairs gave us all 2 ears and ONE mouth !
haha Dat be true, think about it Nick thumbs


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq) [Re: 70charger512] #2568220
10/23/18 09:18 AM
10/23/18 09:18 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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BradH Offline
Taking time off to work on my car
BradH  Offline
Taking time off to work on my car
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
Originally Posted By Nick Stevanovski

Well, i appreciate ur genuine advice...

I hope something I offered up helps with your build.

Quote:
And i really dont see how responding to rude people is petulen or self important, i dont see how i needed to chill out when i got unnecessarily rude comments to basic questions.

I've been told more than once that I need to put some varnish on the truth; it's not simply that you responded, it's how you responded.

Honestly, I hope your car ends up being a total blast to drive and is worth the time & money you're going to put into it. However, I'm stepping away from your threads now and will let them run their course.

Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq) [Re: 70charger512] #2568249
10/23/18 10:34 AM
10/23/18 10:34 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,319
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
I Live Here
an8sec70cuda  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,319
Marion, South Carolina [><]
Originally Posted By Nick Stevanovski
Originally Posted By an8sec70cuda
I'm just wondering how many more new threads this guy is gonna start before someone finally gives in and tells him his little cam and performer intake will make 550 hp so he's happy?

Buddy i have already decided to get a holley SD before anyone told me about the performer, especially because the performer rpm might have hood clearance issues while the SD wont. I also understand i cant use that small cam, i was asking questions as to why not and how operating rpm works. Funny how people cant comprehend that. What advice do you have?...

LOL, kid...I tried to help you on one of your first threads. Then it became pretty clear you just wanted someone to agree w/ you, even though you don't have a clue how to accomplish your goal. Good luck.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq) [Re: an8sec70cuda] #2568253
10/23/18 10:44 AM
10/23/18 10:44 AM
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 257
NC
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70charger512 Offline OP
#1 Thread Starter
70charger512  Offline OP
#1 Thread Starter
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Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 257
NC
Originally Posted By an8sec70cuda
Originally Posted By Nick Stevanovski
Originally Posted By an8sec70cuda
I'm just wondering how many more new threads this guy is gonna start before someone finally gives in and tells him his little cam and performer intake will make 550 hp so he's happy?

Buddy i have already decided to get a holley SD before anyone told me about the performer, especially because the performer rpm might have hood clearance issues while the SD wont. I also understand i cant use that small cam, i was asking questions as to why not and how operating rpm works. Funny how people cant comprehend that. What advice do you have?...

LOL, kid...I tried to help you on one of your first threads. Then it became pretty clear you just wanted someone to agree w/ you, even though you don't have a clue how to accomplish your goal. Good luck.

No. I didnt want someone to agree with me. I wanted people to simply respond without being as rude as possible for no reason. But ok you're right, because I dont know about the most complicated part about engine building, that means I dont have a clue about anything related to cars.

Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq) [Re: BradH] #2568254
10/23/18 10:45 AM
10/23/18 10:45 AM
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 257
NC
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70charger512 Offline OP
#1 Thread Starter
70charger512  Offline OP
#1 Thread Starter
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Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 257
NC
Originally Posted By BradH
Originally Posted By Nick Stevanovski

Well, i appreciate ur genuine advice...

I hope something I offered up helps with your build.

Quote:
And i really dont see how responding to rude people is petulen or self important, i dont see how i needed to chill out when i got unnecessarily rude comments to basic questions.

I've been told more than once that I need to put some varnish on the truth; it's not simply that you responded, it's how you responded.

Honestly, I hope your car ends up being a total blast to drive and is worth the time & money you're going to put into it. However, I'm stepping away from your threads now and will let them run their course.

Well I do appreciate you genuinely helping, but of course if someone is rude I wont be nice back.

Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq) [Re: 70charger512] #2568273
10/23/18 11:44 AM
10/23/18 11:44 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,682
Philadelphia
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radar Offline
top fuel
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,682
Philadelphia
Yo Nick

I think I see what you’re looking for and not getting here, and I understand why some people are chafing at your persistence.

I’m a child in the engine building hobby compared to some of the pros you’re getting advise from but I have tried 15 or 20 cams in different engines, mostly harleys and small block mopars. So I’m going to tell you what I know about operating ranges, horsepower, and street driving. I’ll try to keep it short.

Cams have personality. Some are smooth from the bottom up, some have a rough spot that can’t be tuned out, some run out of steam early, some need to be revved to get to the power, and some even have a magic sweet spot where the power comes in all of the sudden.

I’ll give you my experiences with some cams in my stickshift 408 stroker smallblock-

With Unported eddy heads: comp extreme high lift .525 hydraulic- great torque, good hp to 5500, came on violently at 2200. Had to either take off hard at 2500 or feather the clutch or else it was a jerky ride past 2200. A stall converter in an auto would have probably fixed that.

Same heads, mopar 557 solid cam: soft on the bottom- needed more gas to take off. Still probably comparable to a stock 318 or 273 off idle- a little choppy but smooth power delivery. Cam specs looked like it’d rev and rev and get gobs of power upstairs but the unported heads with the stroker made power drop off basically after 5k. Still super fun to drive and respectably fast on the street but far from well matched or maxumum power for the operating range- didn’t rev that high and weak off idle. Easy to drive, sounded great, & lots of fun though.

Eddy Heads ported @ shady dell, custom bullet soild cam spec’d by Ryan to match the potential of his heads: stronger all over the place. Only problem was that now there was SPECTACULAR power in the upper rpm range which with my OD 4spd meant that 1st was over in 20 feet and spinning tires, then 2nd gear didn’t tap into that power until 60-70mph. Going sideways around a lonely corner at 35mph is super fun but going sideways because you mashed it on the highway is terrifying! It was for sure a stoplight terror and had the ‘probably 500 crank hp’ bragging rights, but was actually less fun to drive to work or cruise around sometimes. I did have a lot of fun but it was more night time mustang hunting (just stoplight shannanagans not crazy all out streetracing).

Now I’m building a 512 for a 3000lb pickup with 3.21 gears. I’m trying out a comp .507 lift with a split duration in the 240°s. I’m trying to be like the little brother to Andy F’s motor- maybe 80% of his power and 50% of his spending. Time will tell.

Did that help with the operating range thing? A real racer will just put in a converter that constantly accesses the sweet spot for max power but that would be terrible on the street. A true street car would pull smooth and hard off idle but would be unimpressive over 4000. It’s not as cut and dry as operating range numbers- cams will have personality and it will have a lot to do with especially your heads and the whole package in general.

For what you want to do I’d pick something that has a cool sounding idle and I wouldn’t try to keep making power past 5500. A 6000 redline will keep the valvetrain parts affordable and I usually shift around 4k or lower on the street unless I’m really enjoying myself or keeping it revved up in 2nd and playing around in that 3500-5k area through twisties.

Ok I’m done my coffee, time to get to work. Hope this helped and listen to the suggestions above most were made by people much smartener than me wink

Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq) [Re: 70charger512] #2568282
10/23/18 12:02 PM
10/23/18 12:02 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,682
Philadelphia
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radar Offline
top fuel
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Philadelphia
Oh one more thing- a personal rule of thumb learned dynoing my 557 cam- a conservative mustang brand dyno said my 557 combo made 350hp 400tq at yhe wheels. Which means right around 1hp per cubic inch. If you try to get more than 100% volumetric efficiency (more than 1hp/cid) you are talking about stuffing more air in than the cylinder naturally wants to suck which always involves optimizing big ports & intake, big cam, big headers, big rpm. Which will suck off idle unless you have BIG inches. If you shoot for 425hp 500tq I’m pretty sure you will end up with a fun combo that is respectable at the track. If you really need 500hp then build the milder motor with a concentration on upper midrange power and use forged pistons with a little extra ring gap so you can hit it with a 125 shot of nitrous- best of both worlds and cheap unless you fill the bottle every week.

You can cheat a little with good head porting and prep which can yield surprising numbers with a milder combination.

Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq) [Re: 70charger512] #2568285
10/23/18 12:08 PM
10/23/18 12:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,094
central texas
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krautrock Offline
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central texas
I posted this in another of your threads and I think it might've been deleted.

Just build a 440, flat top pistons, quench (closed combustion chamber like in the Trick Flow 240 heads), pick a solid cam around 245*@.050 lift or a hydro cam around 235*@.050, tune it and learn to drive it.
It will haul ass, sound good, and be easy enough to tune and drive.
Don't worry about the stated cam RPM range becuase there are too many variable that affect it.

also, read this article by AndyF...

http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/bb/Lobe.html

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