Is there a minimum length for a driveshaft?
#2534485
08/11/18 08:51 AM
08/11/18 08:51 AM
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in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
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A jack shaft between a transmission and transfer case to be specific. I'm planning a 2WD NV4500 swap into my Power Wagon. The shaft in there now is about 11" long with a slip joint and flanges on both the trans and transfer case. The 4500 uses a slip yoke and is about 6" longer than the NP435. So is a 5" center to center jack shaft even pheasable or how much do I need to move the transfer case back?
The truck is lifted 4" so I'm trying to avoid messing with the rear driveshaft angles too much although I realize it would help the front shaft angles some.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon!
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: Is there a minimum length for a driveshaft?
[Re: 4406bbl]
#2534527
08/11/18 12:17 PM
08/11/18 12:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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North Dakota
6PakBee
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I Live Here
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There is very little relative lateral motion between the transmission and transfer case in that divorced arrangement that Dodge used. If you check the shaft alignment and shim the transfer case to get an on center configuration, I would THINK that 5" would be acceptable. I didn't run out and measure mine on my '72 W200 but doesn't 5" center to center on the U-joints only leave you about an inch of circular driveshaft?
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: Is there a minimum length for a driveshaft?
[Re: 6PakBee]
#2534585
08/11/18 02:19 PM
08/11/18 02:19 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,625
in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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I guess it would depend on the end yokes used. My "by memory" measurements were a little off. The 4500 with the slip yoke would be 36". The 435 to the center of the yoke is 27". Center to center of the jackshaft is 13" leaving about 4". I'm thinking maybe a double cardan joint with the slip yoke might be perfect but I'm having a hard time finding specs on the joints.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon!
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: Is there a minimum length for a driveshaft?
[Re: Guitar Jones]
#2534602
08/11/18 03:11 PM
08/11/18 03:11 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,625
in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
OP
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
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It looks like I can move the transfer case back about 4-5" with minor floor mods. More than that and it's going to need to be modified for clearance and seat belt relocation. So maybe an 8-9" shaft.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon!
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: Is there a minimum length for a driveshaft?
[Re: Guitar Jones]
#2534612
08/11/18 03:35 PM
08/11/18 03:35 PM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
Supercuda
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About to go away
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up yours
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Before you do that make sure you aren't opening up a whole new can of worms. I would probably get advice from my driveshaft shop on this issue.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
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Re: Is there a minimum length for a driveshaft?
[Re: Supercuda]
#2534620
08/11/18 03:59 PM
08/11/18 03:59 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,625
in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
OP
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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OP
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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I do plan on consulting with them but they are closed today so just wondering if anyone here had any knowledge on the subject.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon!
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: Is there a minimum length for a driveshaft?
[Re: Guitar Jones]
#2534640
08/11/18 04:36 PM
08/11/18 04:36 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA
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I Live Here
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A jack shaft between a transmission and transfer case to be specific. I'm planning a 2WD NV4500 swap into my Power Wagon. The shaft in there now is about 11" long with a slip joint and flanges on both the trans and transfer case. The 4500 uses a slip yoke and is about 6" longer than the NP435. So is a 5" center to center jack shaft even pheasable or how much do I need to move the transfer case back?
The truck is lifted 4" so I'm trying to avoid messing with the rear driveshaft angles too much although I realize it would help the front shaft angles some. go here.... http://www.4xshaft.com/ have a short shaft made with the joint/joints needed, and yokes/flanges, and rotate the front diff upwards using some axle perch shims to correct the front shaft angle, a few degrees should do it, as a 4" lift ain't much... Mike
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Re: Is there a minimum length for a driveshaft?
[Re: DAYCLONA]
#2534651
08/11/18 05:06 PM
08/11/18 05:06 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,625
in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
OP
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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OP
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,625
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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A jack shaft between a transmission and transfer case to be specific. I'm planning a 2WD NV4500 swap into my Power Wagon. The shaft in there now is about 11" long with a slip joint and flanges on both the trans and transfer case. The 4500 uses a slip yoke and is about 6" longer than the NP435. So is a 5" center to center jack shaft even pheasable or how much do I need to move the transfer case back?
The truck is lifted 4" so I'm trying to avoid messing with the rear driveshaft angles too much although I realize it would help the front shaft angles some. go here.... http://www.4xshaft.com/ have a short shaft made with the joint/joints needed, and yokes/flanges, and rotate the front diff upwards using some axle perch shims to correct the front shaft angle, a few degrees should do it, as a 4" lift ain't much... Mike The front shaft is OK where it is but I wouldn't mind adding some more positive caster to it. I have about +2 degrees now so I don't want to lose any of that. Thanks for the link.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon!
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: Is there a minimum length for a driveshaft?
[Re: Guitar Jones]
#2534656
08/11/18 05:13 PM
08/11/18 05:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,702
North Dakota
6PakBee
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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North Dakota
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I'm thinking maybe a double cardan joint with the slip yoke might be perfect but I'm having a hard time finding specs on the joints. If you are talking about a constant velocity arrangement, I think that would be overkill. They're normally used when you have a substantial joint angle which your application wouldn't have.
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: Is there a minimum length for a driveshaft?
[Re: 6PakBee]
#2534687
08/11/18 05:58 PM
08/11/18 05:58 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,625
in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
OP
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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OP
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
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Yeah, but I was thinking it would probably be short enough to fit in there.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon!
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: Is there a minimum length for a driveshaft?
[Re: Guitar Jones]
#2534717
08/11/18 07:13 PM
08/11/18 07:13 PM
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 5,763
ohio
ruderunner
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master
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ohio
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Look up "Greek coupler". Iirc Karamesis (sp?) Made them popular. Basically the driveshaft is the H yoke of a CV joint. Use the slip yoke in the trans for length movement. About a 3" center to center driveshaft.
Angry white pureblood male
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Re: Is there a minimum length for a driveshaft?
[Re: Guitar Jones]
#2534779
08/11/18 09:51 PM
08/11/18 09:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,702
North Dakota
6PakBee
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I Live Here
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North Dakota
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Yeah, but I was thinking it would probably be short enough to fit in there. I see where you are going with this.
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: Is there a minimum length for a driveshaft?
[Re: Guitar Jones]
#2535204
08/12/18 06:33 PM
08/12/18 06:33 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,310
Walnut Creek, CA
blown340
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master
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Walnut Creek, CA
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I'm in the middle of doing this same swap in my 73 W200 which also has a divorced transfer case. To deal with the extra length issue I ended up using a 2WD chevy NV4500 with a dodge input shaft swapped in. The chevy tailshaft is way shorter than the dodge one. I need to shorten my driveshaft a bit, but dramatically less than what you are talking about.
It might be less effort for you than moving the T-case and making all new driveshafts and mounts.
-Jon
70 challenger convertible. 340/5 speed. blown, intercooled, efi, blah blah blah
71 valiant scamp 318/A833OD/AC/PS
00 dakota RC 4.7L 5 spd autoX'r. SRT10/T56 swap in process
73 W200 Power wagon, PTO winch, 4 spd
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Re: Is there a minimum length for a driveshaft?
[Re: Guitar Jones]
#2535205
08/12/18 06:36 PM
08/12/18 06:36 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,310
Walnut Creek, CA
blown340
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,310
Walnut Creek, CA
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I'm in the middle of doing this same swap in my 73 W200 which also has a divorced transfer case. To deal with the extra length issue I ended up using a 2WD chevy NV4500 with a dodge input shaft swapped in. The chevy tailshaft is way shorter than the dodge one. I need to shorten my driveshaft a bit, but dramatically less than what you are talking about.
It might be less effort for you than moving the T-case and making all new driveshafts and mounts.
-Jon
70 challenger convertible. 340/5 speed. blown, intercooled, efi, blah blah blah
71 valiant scamp 318/A833OD/AC/PS
00 dakota RC 4.7L 5 spd autoX'r. SRT10/T56 swap in process
73 W200 Power wagon, PTO winch, 4 spd
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Re: Is there a minimum length for a driveshaft?
[Re: blown340]
#2535470
08/13/18 06:28 AM
08/13/18 06:28 AM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,625
in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
OP
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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OP
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,625
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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It looks like the 35 spline Chevy trans is 4" shorter so you are still looking at about an 8" shaft. Do you have yours installed in the truck yet? I'd be interested in some pics of it if you do and actual measurements.
Thanks.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon!
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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Re: Is there a minimum length for a driveshaft?
[Re: dogdays]
#2535687
08/13/18 04:02 PM
08/13/18 04:02 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,625
in a cattle trailer down by th...
Guitar Jones
OP
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
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OP
Paddle faster! I hear banjo music!
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,625
in a cattle trailer down by th...
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I seem to remember that universal joints need a small bit of angularity to live. Mercedes sedans with independent rear suspensions don't use universal joints at all, they use what look very much like rag joints. Then they have a slip coupling in the driveshaft somewhere.
R. Yes that is correct they need some angle. That won't be a problem. Our rear wheel drive cars and AWD SUVs don't have u joints either. It's a thick rubber coupler.
"Follow me the wise man said, but he walked behind"
'92 D250 Club Cab CTD, 47RH conversion, pump tweaks, injectors, rear disc and hydroboost conversion.
'74 W200 Crew Cab 360, NV4500, D44, D60 and NP205 divorced transfer case. Rear disc and hydroboost coming soon!
2019 1500 Long Horn Crew Cab 4WD, 5.7 Hemi.
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