Re: Surge Tank Implementation
[Re: Blucuda413]
#2487286
04/24/18 02:13 PM
04/24/18 02:13 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,275 West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,275
West Coast, USA
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I use a surge tank set-up on my '68 Barracuda with EFI. The way I have it plumbed is simple and very effective at supplying air free fuel to my injectors even down to the last gallon in my unbaffled tank.
I've never heard of anyone using a needle and seat to control the fuel level in a surge tank. It interesting, but unnecessary. I plumbed mine the more common way by running a feed line from the rear mounted pump and a return line to the tank. No needle and seat is needed, as the fuel simply flows back to the tank with nor restrictions. The surge tank remains full.
I used 3/8 feed and return lines flowing through a pair of Permacool filters/water traps. A stock tank with a silver soldered upsized 3/8 return line in the pick-up, and a small electric fuel pump mounted outside the tank. I could just as easily have used an in tank pump.
The fuel circulates through the lines until it fills the surge tank and then returns to the tank all at nearly "0" psi, as there are no restrictions to this fuel circuit. If the in-tank pick-up does get uncovered while driving with low fuel levels, the air bubble that causes is quickly pumped through the system and purged back into the tank.
Air floats to the top of the surge tank, obviously, and is quickly eliminated from the surge tank. My high pressure fuel pump is mounted inside the surge tank never see's the bubble.
As long as your fuel circuit from the tank to the surge tank has no restrictions, and the feed to your mechanical pump has a pick-up tube located near the bottom of the fuel tank, you should have good results.
The high volume of near 0 psi fuel flowing through the surge tank and fuel circuit keeps the electric pump cool and is very easy on the pump.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's 1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: Surge Tank Implementation
[Re: Blucuda413]
#2487575
04/24/18 11:38 PM
04/24/18 11:38 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 598 NC, USA
davenc
mopar
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mopar
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 598
NC, USA
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JBC426,
Which vendor's surge tank is that?
Also, if the low pressure side uses a return to the tank, is the high pressure side dead-headed? Or do you have 2 returns?
Thx
Last edited by davenc; 04/25/18 10:15 AM.
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Re: Surge Tank Implementation
[Re: davenc]
#2487761
04/25/18 01:24 PM
04/25/18 01:24 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,275 West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,275
West Coast, USA
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Davenc, Radium Engineering makes the best stuff that I've seen. Here's their link. http://www.radiumauto.com/FST-Fuel-Surge-Tank-Standard-P515.aspxThere are basically 2 fuel circuits in my surge tank system. The very low pressure circuit from the tank, to the surge tank and back to the tank. This circuit free flows at nearly 0 psi. It supplies a mostly uninterrupted flow of fuel to keep the surge tank full. If the tank pick-up does get uncovered during low fuel level operation, the resultant bubble in the line is quickly purged out of the surge tank and back to the main fuel tank. This allows you to run an inexpensive stock tank by simply increasing the size of the return bung to match the output bung size. The second circuit in my EFI application flows from the high pressure fuel pump submerged in the surge tank through the fuel rails and then the adjustable pressure regulator on top of the surge tank and back into to the surge tank. The high pressure fuel circuit is short and does not run the length of the car.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's 1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: Surge Tank Implementation
[Re: Blucuda413]
#2487765
04/25/18 01:29 PM
04/25/18 01:29 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,275 West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,275
West Coast, USA
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Cool stuff. This technology seems to be driven largely by the Tuner crowds need for even higher performance fuel systems than come on their factory EFI cars.
You should be able to use a simple in-tank EFI pump that circulates fuel into your surge tank and then back to your fuel tank, doing away with the float mechanism.
You will need to ensure your surge tank is sealed and the fuel pick up in located at the bottom of your surge tank. and overflow or bypassed fuel is plumbed back into the sealed surge tank.
In other words you have a near 0 psi circuit from the tank to the surge tank and back to the tank. And, a high pressure circuit to your mechanical injection and overflow or bypasses back to your surge tank.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's 1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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Re: Surge Tank Implementation
[Re: Blucuda413]
#2489058
04/28/18 01:46 PM
04/28/18 01:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,533 Alexandria, LA
Blucuda413
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,533
Alexandria, LA
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jbc426, your system is much more modern than mine. I'm using this as my implementation. http://hilborninjection.com/mechanical-tech-support/ It's the old school way. I'm just trying to get the fuel up front where it is available for the Hilborn pump. There is no pump in my surge tank it is gravity fed through a -10 line about 6 inches long to the Hilborn pump. The Hilborn pump then provides the pressure to the injection barrel valve, The Hilborn pump bypass is routed through the primary bypass valve back to the surge tank. The tank is vented and the primary bypass has the "pill". The plumbing of mine that is different from the Hilborn diagram is that Hilborn told me not to include a "secondary" or a "hi speed" bypass. I'll try it like that to see how it works. Really the only thing that makes them different that is your surge tank is sealed and mine is not.
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Re: Surge Tank Implementation
[Re: Blucuda413]
#2489543
04/29/18 03:13 PM
04/29/18 03:13 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,275 West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,275
West Coast, USA
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I looked at the schematic on the Hilborn site.
If you eliminate the float bowl and just plumb the feed directly into the surge tank, convert the vent tube into the return line to the main tank and run a line from the vent to the main tank; it will work like mine does.
All other surge tank feed and return lines remain unchanged.
This will leave your surge tank full of fuel at near 0 psi and the main feed and returns on you Hilborn system unchanged.
The benefit is that your system won't be reliant on a needle and seat controlling the fuel level in your surge tank. It's one less thing to need adjustment or get hung up with a spec of dirt etc.
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's 1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
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