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#2436499 - 01/17/18 04:03 PM Re: '84 Chrysler 5th Avenue conversion from computer to ecu [Re: dfixer]
scratchnfotraction Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 05/29/03
Posts: 15163
Loc: Florida
I sure do miss moms 82 5th ave

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#2437122 - 01/18/18 06:43 PM Re: '84 Chrysler 5th Avenue conversion from computer to ecu [Re: dfixer]
5thAve Offline
master

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 2719
Loc: Posts: 4034 - Register...
Did you try changing the ECU? I always have one or two good ones around for situations like this. Ditto for coils. The only thing that can really go bad in the distributor is the pickup with that plug coming off it, whcih you can you replace.

It's not a very complicated system, I wouldn't bother changing to points. That's like throwing out the tv remote and getting up to change the channel because you don't want to change the batteries.

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#2437185 - 01/18/18 08:53 PM Re: '84 Chrysler 5th Avenue conversion from computer to ecu [Re: dfixer]
DarrenS Offline


Registered: 05/06/04
Posts: 567
Loc: Courtenay, B.C.
These intermittent firing problems can usually be traced back to a loose wire or bad ground...

I've had a bad ignition switch do it as well.

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#2438531 - 01/21/18 03:51 PM Re: '84 Chrysler 5th Avenue conversion from computer to ecu [Re: RapidRobert]
dfixer Offline
member

Registered: 01/02/18
Posts: 24
Loc: Texas
Dang! Well the Cardone dist came in; it had no cap, no rotor and no vacuum module and the counter kid said that was all they offered. However, an older gentleman at the counter next to me overheard the conversation, asked what I was trying to do and told the kid to look under Dodge trucks starting from '62. When he got to '77 there it was and they could have it for me by 3 PM that afternoon.

Today, to be sure nothing was out of place, I got out the breaker bar and inch and a quarter socket and got it to TDC before putting in the new dist. I set the pickup gap at .008. While waiting on the dist to come in, I also purchased a new starter relay and I put that in too today. All that said and done and I got the same result - cranks but will not start. I am right back where I started. I have never had this much trouble trying to get a car to start. I have it on the charger right now, since I have just about run the battery down.

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#2438560 - 01/21/18 04:43 PM Re: '84 Chrysler 5th Avenue conversion from computer to ecu [Re: dfixer]
RapidRobert Online   content
Circle Track

Registered: 11/20/03
Posts: 33681
Loc: Lincoln Nebraska
the symptoms sure definitely point to the dist (not triggering the ECU) but I wonder if it IS the ECU (what 5th ave said).
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live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

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#2438616 - 01/21/18 05:50 PM Re: '84 Chrysler 5th Avenue conversion from computer to ecu [Re: RapidRobert]
dfixer Offline
member

Registered: 01/02/18
Posts: 24
Loc: Texas
Well I did take some of your earlier advise and bought another ECU for the glovebox and this one is chrome, so I guess I could give it a try. I did have my helper try to start it while I drug the zigzag across the intake and that hasn't changed - it still tries to start.

I am beginning to second guess everything. Is it some of the old wiring, maybe something to do with the tilt steering, or the ignition switch, perhaps a new key and from there it's time to check the tire pressure. Oh well, all part of the fun of supporting an elderly car.

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#2438622 - 01/21/18 05:56 PM Re: '84 Chrysler 5th Avenue conversion from computer to ecu [Re: dfixer]
GMP440 Offline
pro stock

Registered: 02/25/03
Posts: 1338
Loc: Florida
This may have been addressed in an earlier post; have you checked the voltage going to the distributer? What is the voltage coming from ignition 1 and 2?


Edited by GMP440 (01/21/18 05:57 PM)

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#2438628 - 01/21/18 06:11 PM Re: '84 Chrysler 5th Avenue conversion from computer to ecu [Re: dfixer]
GMP440 Offline
pro stock

Registered: 02/25/03
Posts: 1338
Loc: Florida
Just read this post:

dfixer
"So I put the dist. from the conversion kit back in and checked it with the zigzag connector drag test with the coil wire in the dist cap and it still tried to start and still gave me spark on the spark plug :"

If you're getting spark at the spark plugs, then you have ignition.
Is it possible that the engine was turned without the distributer in?
If that's what happened, then you're timing is way off and causing a no start condition. Make sure you're number one piston is at top dead center on compression stroke and rotor at the number one tower.

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#2438684 - 01/21/18 07:07 PM Re: '84 Chrysler 5th Avenue conversion from computer to ecu [Re: RapidRobert]
dfixer Offline
member

Registered: 01/02/18
Posts: 24
Loc: Texas
Well I think the word BINGO my be in order. I changed out the ECU and the 5th started up. I didn't run it long. I want to get everything back together and dressed out, but it ran long enough to make me feel we have found the problem. RR I think you probably hit on it early on when you said, ". . .it wouldn't be orange would it?" There is one thing, that pentastar connector doesn't want to go all the way down, the way it did on the orange ECU. The smaller end goes down but the larger end sits up some; feels like it is just barely on. I pushed pretty hard but it didn't want to go any farther down and I didn't want to over do it. Wondering if a new harness is in order and if that may have had something to do with it all along. At this point, the harness and ballast resistor are the only things left from that conversion kit.

Darkness and rain are overtaking me. Weather predictions look good for tomorrow, so hopefully my 5th and I will be on the road again before days end. I will let you know how it goes and thanks again to you all.

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#2438696 - 01/21/18 07:21 PM Re: '84 Chrysler 5th Avenue conversion from computer to ecu [Re: dfixer]
GMP440 Offline
pro stock

Registered: 02/25/03
Posts: 1338
Loc: Florida
Excellant. It's running. I would not change anything out. It's running. Sometimes it best to leave well enough alone. The plug will go in. You have to tighten the screw that goes into the plug. That's what holds the plug on.

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#2438923 - 01/22/18 08:55 AM Re: '84 Chrysler 5th Avenue conversion from computer to ecu [Re: dfixer]
scratchnfotraction Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 05/29/03
Posts: 15163
Loc: Florida
add a extra ground wire to the ecu mounting bolt. it needs a good solid ground.

I do agree that running the points dist is going backwards in a way... but! when your on side of the road it is a sure fire way to get it to run back to the shop for more trouble shooting.

when you spend cash you don't have on stuff and have the hassle of tracking down crap from china and not mopar made in usa parts then to have it all NOT work is frustrating.

so I don't mind going backwards sometime if it will get me 2 steps forward in the long run. so 1 step back(points dist) and 1 step forward converting back to a more reliable elect. system(points conversion) 2nd step forward for the long run is longevity & reliability with first out lay of cash.

you can also buy the pertronix conversion to replace the leanburn system or the ecu style dist. or Mallory or firecore or MSD or ??? they all work fine too but cost $$.

I just suggest the points so it cranks/runs on the fist outlay of cash. this is way less frustration.

glad you got it going.

just file the info away for when the stock stuff crashes again as they always seem to do.

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#2439043 - 01/22/18 12:38 PM Re: '84 Chrysler 5th Avenue conversion from computer to ecu [Re: scratchnfotraction]
dfixer Offline
member

Registered: 01/02/18
Posts: 24
Loc: Texas
When I did the conversion, I used one of the factory engine grounds (the kind-of mesh ground strap with the toothed eyelet on the end)that was mounted to the firewall, under one of the bolts that I mounted the ECU with (also ground off the paint on the ECU mounting ear)to be sure it was well grounded. Everything I read said not getting a good ground on the ECU had been traced back in many cases to people having problems with their conversions.

I agree about your dropping back to points. It is what I would call getting back to basics. Having been a radio and a telephone tech for many years, trouble shooting for me usually meant "Are the basic elements working?" and work forward from there.

Weather looks great so I better get out there and get it done. I feel like China got me alright. It ran for almost a month and then just quit - drove it to town and back, parked in the driveway then cranked but would not fire (I am thankful it got me home and did not die in town). Now to see if Jegs will replace this what I am sure is a Made in China ECU.

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#2439148 - 01/22/18 04:01 PM Re: '84 Chrysler 5th Avenue conversion from computer to ecu [Re: dfixer]
scratchnfotraction Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 05/29/03
Posts: 15163
Loc: Florida


I think old mopars still running points are way cool. I need something to keep me busy and I like to service mopars. finding someone now days that remember how to trouble shoot points or service a old mopar is a rare thing now days at a shop.

I have had a lot of people in my 1 horse town stop me and ask ? about their mid 80s mopars. just because I have the only stepside & 440 truck in town.

everyone has a puzzled look when I show them NO ecu and the plug just laying on the fender.

been running the 85-318 this way since 94 and I just installed it in my 440 with the mech advance locked out on 0* and 36* total. it is a beast. 230*/245* dur@.050 .518/.518 lift.

watching people go poof looking at it is way cool I say LOL!

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#2439414 - 01/23/18 02:02 AM Re: '84 Chrysler 5th Avenue conversion from computer to ecu [Re: scratchnfotraction]
dfixer Offline
member

Registered: 01/02/18
Posts: 24
Loc: Texas
I am back on the road again! I got out the old Sun gun and set the timing. Then I had to manufacture something to get to the half inch hold-down bolt for the dist. That vacuum module hanging off the side, that wasn't there under the old system, does make it a lot more difficult; I really had to fight it last time, this time I was determined to make it a little easier.

There was also that other problem I mentioned yesterday; the ECU connector wouldn't go on. The connector pins would only go on about 1/16th of the way into the cavities. I tried putting it on and off so many times the first 1/16th of the cavities were so shiny they almost looked chromed. I tried pulling it down with the screw, but I could tell it was about to strip out. I decide I needed to ream out the cavities (it was just the top three holding the connector off), but when that didn't seem to be making any headway, I put more light on the subject. It was then that I discovered that in the manufacturing process, some of the flashing had not been removed in the grove between the outside wall and the main body of the plug. It was Dremal time. A zip bit cleaned out the flashing from the grove and the connector went right on. I examined the orange ECU next to the new Standard Blue Streak chrome ECU and discovered the wall surrounding the connector pins was thicker on the chrome ECU than on the orange ECU, thereby not causing a problem when the harness was used with the orange ECU. Just wanted to mention that in case someone else runs into that China created issue.

I think it may be idling a bit fast. I'll drive it around a bit some and adjust it if need be after a little break-in period. Hopefully I won't be back here in a month saying, "Guess what?"

Again I really want to thank everyone for all their help and I hope that all of these post, about my problem, may someday help someone else get their vehicle back on the road again.

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#2440270 - 01/24/18 07:40 PM Re: '84 Chrysler 5th Avenue conversion from computer to ecu [Re: dfixer]
5thAve Offline
master

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 2719
Loc: Posts: 4034 - Register...
Well I'm glad it turned out to be something simple. Now grab a spare ecu and ballast resistor to stick in the glove box or in with the spare tire so you're not stuck out in the middle of nowhere boiling your a$$ off if something ever goes again.

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#2440333 - 01/24/18 09:34 PM Re: '84 Chrysler 5th Avenue conversion from computer to ecu [Re: 5thAve]
RapidRobert Online   content
Circle Track

Registered: 11/20/03
Posts: 33681
Loc: Lincoln Nebraska
easiest I found to get in there is a short 1/2" box end wrench or a 1/4" drive mini ratchet with a 1/2" socket on it.
_________________________
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

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#2440342 - 01/24/18 10:09 PM Re: '84 Chrysler 5th Avenue conversion from computer to ecu [Re: dfixer]
mgoblue9798 Online   content
member

Registered: 03/16/10
Posts: 193
Loc: Atlanta, GA
There is a specialty wrench made to get to the distributor hold down bolt.
You can also get to it with 1/4 ratchet. Use a bunch of small extentions together to get some play, or a flop joint on the end with the socket.
You can snug it up to where it is hard to turn but can still be adjusted without loosening the bolt again.

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