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Re: 6 Pack Carb Idles well with Air Fuel Idle Screws Closed [Re: 3XBlack6packGTX] #2083235
05/31/16 02:12 AM
05/31/16 02:12 AM
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3XBlack6packGTX Offline OP
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Thanks for all the excellent knowledge. I will go through each and every response to try and understand what is happening and get back to guys.

This may sound stupid but can an incorrect fuel pump contribute to this issue. Say, too much fuel pressure damage the PV or affect the outboards too? I guess I just had too ask.

What is the preferred fuel pump and fuel pump pressure among the guys on this thread?

Thanks again.

Re: 6 Pack Carb Idles well with Air Fuel Idle Screws Closed [Re: 3XBlack6packGTX] #2083244
05/31/16 02:42 AM
05/31/16 02:42 AM
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RapidRobert Offline
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Black there are no dump Q's. yes too high of pump psi wont bother the PV but it will overpower the needle/seat assys & cause a rich idle. eddys dont like more than ~5.5 lbs. Holley can handle higher


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: 6 Pack Carb Idles well with Air Fuel Idle Screws Closed [Re: 3XBlack6packGTX] #2083282
05/31/16 08:52 AM
05/31/16 08:52 AM
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mikemee1331 Offline
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holley are good up to about 7.5. are you running an electric or mech pump now?

Re: 6 Pack Carb Idles well with Air Fuel Idle Screws Closed [Re: mikemee1331] #2083641
05/31/16 10:05 PM
05/31/16 10:05 PM
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3XBlack6packGTX Offline OP
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Mechanical.

It's a carter not quite sure model number but will get it. It's not the 6 pack pump that I see many recommending, the carter 6 pack pump with two cylinders. The pump on the car has one cylinder with two ports. I started the car today and car is still smelly but fires up well and seems to drive well. Still haven't pulled off the carbs but will be working through all the issues that everyone has identified.

Doesn't surprise me that carbs could be way out of adjustment.. Just because someone rebuilds them and bench tests them does t mean they know what they are doing. They never asked me about my vacuum at idle or what cam I was using so I do have a lumpy cam which may have lowered my vacuum below factory specs. I also have a 1500-1800 stall sped on my converter so I will get those specs too. All I know is that I got put my foot into it to make it go from a dead stop.

I am at 900 rpm in park and 700 in drive. As I recall I had set initial timing to 18 degrees btdc and since I am using msd I do not have vacuum advance on the car.

Looking forward to figuring this out. Thanks again for al l the help and support.

Re: 6 Pack Carb Idles well with Air Fuel Idle Screws Closed [Re: 3XBlack6packGTX] #2083663
05/31/16 10:26 PM
05/31/16 10:26 PM
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RapidRobert Offline
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More initial MAY help. my stock '83 318 had 18. post how things turn out


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Re: 6 Pack Carb Idles well with Air Fuel Idle Screws Closed [Re: 3XBlack6packGTX] #2084120
06/01/16 03:41 PM
06/01/16 03:41 PM
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Northern Calyfornua
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Sxrxrnr Offline
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Where are idle mixture screws on end carbs set to. They could be supplying too much fuel at idle causing center carb setting to be irrelevant. They should only be barely screwed out from full in. Mopar carbs of course had them leaded up so as not to be messed with unless you really knew what you were doing.

What is idle vacuum, are you certain of no vacuum leaks. Could be several competing issues, not only just 1. Choke completely open?

Re: 6 Pack Carb Idles well with Air Fuel Idle Screws Closed [Re: Sxrxrnr] #2084126
06/01/16 03:56 PM
06/01/16 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted By Sxrxrnr
Where are idle mixture screws on end carbs set to. They could be supplying too much fuel at idle causing center carb setting to be irrelevant. They should only be barely screwed out from full in. Mopar carbs of course had them leaded up so as not to be messed with unless you really knew what you were doing.

Could be several competing issues, not only just 1. Choke completely open?
iagree OP, what list number carbs are you using? Also are the lead plugs in the base plates on the outboard carbs. in place or removed? If removed reset the idle mixture screws to 1/3 to 1/2 turn out from bottom. Adjust them in sofly, DO NOT OVER TIGHTEN THEM IN tsk If there not removed remove them now and adjust them in and see how that helps scope I've owned and ran a bunch of different OEM sixpaks on both BB and SB Mopar, they will idle on the outboard carbs only shock Welcome to the woderful world of Six Paks whistling AKA, you will need to get the outboards carbs idle mixture set up adjusted properly before using the center carb. for the final tuning and idle speeds thumbs Make sure and remove and reset the carb. linkage on the drivers side to insure the outboards are closed all the way at idle with the the choke opened all the way, block it open if you need to scope The key to success on these working good is in ALL the details work thumbs

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 06/01/16 03:57 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 6 Pack Carb Idles well with Air Fuel Idle Screws Closed [Re: Cab_Burge] #2391192
10/22/17 12:53 PM
10/22/17 12:53 PM
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3XBlack6packGTX Offline OP
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Gentlemen

It's been a while since I posted but I just wanted to follow up on this situation. I haven't driven the car much since the first posting and subsequent replies but wanted to let all know where I am today on this. First, thanks for the help.

The car idle like a pig with low vacuum, somewhere around 10-12 hg. The engine bounces around like it wants to jump out of the car until it warms up. Still a really bad fuel
Smell.

So i grew a pair and took the carbs off to check settings and power valve and jets etc. I went through the the guidance by Tom quad from the a12 lift Off Registry website.

When the carbs were redone before Putting them on the motor, the carb guy said they were setup and ready to go. Well, he doesn't know what he is doing!

Outboard carbs were each set 3 turns out so I backed them down to 1/8 CCw. The center carb had #68 jets so I put in #64 just so I could baseline. I checked the power valve and it
Seemed there was fuel in the space behind it so that made me think it may be bad. I replaced it with a 4.5 which is lower than 6.5 but remember my vacuum hg was low so
I wanted to be sure. I can always go back and put a higher Pv in. I did
Not check of verify float levels yet. Also my fuel pump is the Carter street fuel pump Which the a12 site recommends.

Well, results? After snugging everything up nice and firm and starting the engine......I had a dramatic improvement, which I was hoping for.

The engine woke up and started right away with a very smooth idle and a steady vacuum of about 20 hg. Also I forgot to mention I set the center carb idle mixture to 1.5 ccw. The idle rpm was 1500 but i expect it to be higher which I can adjust that down with a further
Timing and vacuum tuning.

I couldn't check the fuel float levels since the idle was so poor so that's my next job and then I will further tune to get max vacuum at an idle of around 900-1100 Rpm in gear.

Voila, I know have control over the idle circuit on the center.carb. and no more fuel smell. I will also be replacing the spark plugs and the engine oill before I Try to further tune
For timing, vacuum and idle. I'm sure the plugs are Fouled beyond belief.

The lesson of this story......pull the carbs and verify everything to the 6 pack carb checklist and don't take anything that your carb rebuilder tells you as accurate. The only way to figure these things Out Is To Understand them and learn from these threads where people that have these carbs can share info.

I do believe the power valve was faulty but I will check it it on a mighty Vac gauge.

The moral of this story..... a rich condition at idle and no control over main carb idle
Circuit, check out board carbs to ensure 1/8 ccw and check that pv is working, 6.5 is appropriate for most engines with Hg of 12 or greater. Also, make sure everything is
Nice and snug but don't gorilla tighten. I turn everything till it stops under normal exertion. If I have to grit my teeth or out my body weight on it, then I'm Over tightening.

If overich condition persists after correct carb set up then verify fuel pressure is
Not Too much and float levels are adjusted correctly. For my situation, an accurate carb setup remedied my rich condition so I'm assuming my fuel pressure is fine and floats just need verification. I do have a slight bog under firm acceleration but I believe that's my 4.5 pv and I will be going back to a new 6.5 pv once I have everything dialed in for good.

By the way. As i was removing the carbs I noticed some less than tight fasteners so
I imagine i had some Vacuum leaks too

Now, I have an entirely different car that doesn't disperse crowds like a tear gas canister. It idles well and I have control over the idle circuit..

Thanks All.

Re: 6 Pack Carb Idles well with Air Fuel Idle Screws Closed [Re: 3XBlack6packGTX] #2391195
10/22/17 12:58 PM
10/22/17 12:58 PM
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RapidRobert Offline
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A happy ending! its too bad that shoddy work by some gives the rest of us a bad rep.


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Re: 6 Pack Carb Idles well with Air Fuel Idle Screws Closed [Re: 3XBlack6packGTX] #2391254
10/22/17 02:52 PM
10/22/17 02:52 PM
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Cab_Burge Offline
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It is good that you took the time to learn what was really causing your problems up bow
Now go out and drive it before changing the plugs, they should clean up real well unless they are fouled bad enough that they miss all the time scope Drive it like a non hot rodder for the first ten to fifteen minutes to allow the gunk to burn off the plugs and then, in a safe place, get after that rascal with full throttle boogie devil
Let us know how it drives now work


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 6 Pack Carb Idles well with Air Fuel Idle Screws Closed [Re: 3XBlack6packGTX] #2391332
10/22/17 05:10 PM
10/22/17 05:10 PM
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mikemee1331 Offline
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that guide is awesome for setting your base line. great piece of work!

Re: 6 Pack Carb Idles well with Air Fuel Idle Screws Closed [Re: RapidRobert] #2391413
10/22/17 08:23 PM
10/22/17 08:23 PM
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3XBlack6packGTX Offline OP
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Thanks

Re: 6 Pack Carb Idles well with Air Fuel Idle Screws Closed [Re: Cab_Burge] #2391414
10/22/17 08:23 PM
10/22/17 08:23 PM
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Thanks

Re: 6 Pack Carb Idles well with Air Fuel Idle Screws Closed [Re: RapidRobert] #2391415
10/22/17 08:23 PM
10/22/17 08:23 PM
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3XBlack6packGTX Offline OP
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Thanks

Re: 6 Pack Carb Idles well with Air Fuel Idle Screws Closed [Re: 3XBlack6packGTX] #2391421
10/22/17 08:30 PM
10/22/17 08:30 PM
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I still have a ways to figure this site out. I thought I was thanking each of you individually. Guess not.

I will update my progress as I continue to dial in the carbs. I know I have more work to do but know i can at least work on it safely and have guide to refer to. I realize I'm only halfway down this road but the car runs so much better. Lookin forward to figuring this out entirely and getting the most out of it. When these 440s run well, there's nothing like it!

Thank god the older kids I hung out with before I could drive in the 70's and 80's were into mopars!

Stay tuned.

Re: 6 Pack Carb Idles well with Air Fuel Idle Screws Closed [Re: 3XBlack6packGTX] #2391435
10/22/17 08:55 PM
10/22/17 08:55 PM
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DaveRS23 Offline
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Where in this wonderful state of Illinois are you?


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Re: 6 Pack Carb Idles well with Air Fuel Idle Screws Closed [Re: DaveRS23] #2392173
10/24/17 02:33 AM
10/24/17 02:33 AM
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Chicagoland.

Re: 6 Pack Carb Idles well with Air Fuel Idle Screws Closed [Re: 3XBlack6packGTX] #2392186
10/24/17 03:01 AM
10/24/17 03:01 AM
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Cotati, CA
Dave Hall Offline
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That's cool 3XBlack! Keep having fun with it and you will be one of the experts on these things!

Re: 6 Pack Carb Idles well with Air Fuel Idle Screws Closed [Re: Dave Hall] #2392482
10/24/17 06:58 PM
10/24/17 06:58 PM
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Thanks for vote Of confidence

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