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#1111717 - 11/14/11 03:31 PM Re: easiest way to tell if you boned an SB intake install? [Re: Sixgun]
Sixgun Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 1549
Loc: Western Washington
OK...
put one of those "boost' type carb hats on, had to use two circle gaskets as the eddy carb needs that plastic "extender" ring, fired it up with PCV hose plugged.I finally got about 1000 RPM idle last night,starts pretty quick, got some more info from Baxter on the motor personality too.
1)
Put the rag on the hat snorkel sloooowly, and the motor does NOT speed up,it dies.Did it several times, and just now realized I should have unhooked the brake booster, just to be sure.I will do this too in a little while.This shouldn't matter, but I have to be methodical.

2)masking taped over the oil fill cap holes tightly, plugged the PCV,hooked up a GOOD vac gauge to the dipstick tube and started her up at about 2K.
ZERO vacuum.Revved up to about 3K still no movement on the needle.

In all fairness, the valve covers are double gasketed, so not sure how great a crankcase seal I have, but that's what I got so far.
Going to recheck 1st test just to be thorough, and then tweak timing and check what initial versus total is right now.Updates later.

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#1111718 - 11/14/11 04:43 PM Re: easiest way to tell if you boned an SB intake install? [Re: Sixgun]
scratchnfotraction Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 05/29/03
Posts: 14496
Loc: Florida
why 2 Vc gaskets? someone forget to remove the old ones?


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#1111719 - 11/14/11 07:28 PM Re: easiest way to tell if you boned an SB intake install? [Re: scratchnfotraction]
Sixgun Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 1549
Loc: Western Washington
Off the track, but the covers would not go down and seal, as they ran into the small bosses on top of the intake (like 4 small raised bumps)
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#1111720 - 11/15/11 05:24 AM Re: easiest way to tell if you boned an SB intake install? [Re: Sixgun]
scratchnfotraction Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 05/29/03
Posts: 14496
Loc: Florida
Quote:

Off the track, but the covers would not go down and seal, as they ran into the small bosses on top of the intake (like 4 small raised bumps)




ok,I get it,i have had to clearance alum VC before cuase of that,but never doubled up the gaskets.

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#1111721 - 11/15/11 09:59 AM Re: easiest way to tell if you boned an SB intake install? [Re: scratchnfotraction]
Sixgun Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 1549
Loc: Western Washington
Yeah at that point I mentally NEEDED to hear the motor fire.There was an extra used set of thick ones lying around, so I shmooey'ed em up a little and on they went.
This will get addressed.
So my friend the motor came from reminded me the dampener zero mark seemed "off" to him by maybe 7 degrees "shy" of what it actually is.Not having a degree wheel,or access to one, I did the pushrod in the hole thing and it seemed real close to me, if not right there.This was on the stand.
Yesterday I timed it at 27 total, and it hates it.
I also feel the Eddy 750 cannot supply enough air/fuel/pumpshot down low for this setup.
I think either my 850DP or the other 850 with the 4 corner may help.Still stalls badly when I drop it in gear, so I am going back to trusting the timing marks on the dampener, and if I EVER get to drive this thing, check for 'ping' under load and back her off till it sounds good.
As I said, I could not detect the major intake leak I suspected, but will probably pull it anyway this week.Probably go to a dual plane like my old LD340.My pal has an air gap I can get, too.
Will post any new developments, thanks guys/gals!
Casey

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#1111722 - 11/17/11 12:34 AM Re: easiest way to tell if you boned an SB intake install? [Re: Sixgun]
Sixgun Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 1549
Loc: Western Washington
OK here's the latest.
Decided the dampener mark was CLOSE based on my gut, and how it sounds when I time it as if it is true.
Set to 35 total.Checked the initial(vac disconnected, about 1200 rpm idle, maybe 1000,
initial is at 27 WOW! I sure did weld those slots up a bit, didn't I?
For now, I am going to go with it, as the total is where it needs to be, and it ran well with the 318/small purple shaft and this distrib.previously.
Cleaning up the Holley 850, as again, my gut is telling me the Eddy 750 (which a lot of you hate anyway)just can't keep this thing happy enough for a decent idle.previous motor owner suggested cracking all 4 throttle blades (holley) until the transfer slots make a square, and try that as a baseline.
As of right now, still stalls out/falls flat going into gear immediately.
Thanks gang!

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#1111723 - 11/17/11 09:28 AM Re: easiest way to tell if you boned an SB intake install? [Re: Sixgun]
RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track

Registered: 11/20/03
Posts: 25799
Loc: Lincoln Nebraska
at 1000 or 1200 showing 27 initial you may very well already be into the springs/slots. I think at this point I'd bite the bullet & change the intake making sure it's sealed, time the dist from scratch then if not solved deal w the carb.
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#1111724 - 11/17/11 10:09 AM Re: easiest way to tell if you boned an SB intake install? [Re: RapidRobert]
Sixgun Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 1549
Loc: Western Washington
OK RR, but as of my earlier observations, the intake may still have some kind of sealing issue, just not a massive one...
That being said, I probably will go back to square one and very probably most likely swap intakes as I just am not confident in this old Torker, and a good dual plane may help, and also I will eliminate the end seals entirely just on GP.
With the light springs in the distrib. I may well be into the curve already.That won't help either.
Thanks

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#1111725 - 11/17/11 10:14 AM Re: easiest way to tell if you boned an SB intake install? [Re: Sixgun]
RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track

Registered: 11/20/03
Posts: 25799
Loc: Lincoln Nebraska
Stay in touch bro & holler w any news/progress
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#1111726 - 11/17/11 11:45 PM Re: easiest way to tell if you boned an SB intake install? [Re: RapidRobert]
Sixgun Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 1549
Loc: Western Washington
Called friend, made deal, air gap coming tomorrow.

Just for S&G cleaned up old 850.Got it to idle down quite a bit, maybe 900-1000 now, sounds pretty good, still ragged.10-11 inches of vac.Idle screws out like 2&1/2 turns, revs quick, sounds strong.Still dies when I put in gear.Started right up, shut right off, tried to tune timing further (mistake!) with vacuum gauge, got a little more vac. out of it (12") but motor did not sound as happy.Still dies in gear.
Also starting to think I may NOT have used a factory high stall, as the sticker was long gone.
I should still (I hope)be able to make this work, as it doesn't seem all that rocky a cam.
More later.Crabby.
C

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#1111727 - 11/18/11 12:52 PM Re: easiest way to tell if you boned an SB intake install? [Re: Sixgun]
RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track

Registered: 11/20/03
Posts: 25799
Loc: Lincoln Nebraska
Hey C if I could afford to come over & attempt to help you I would ex I probably would not want to come home
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#1111728 - 11/18/11 08:25 PM Re: easiest way to tell if you boned an SB intake install? [Re: RapidRobert]
Sixgun Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 1549
Loc: Western Washington
Rob,if you fixed this, I probably wouldn't LET you go home!!!

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#1111729 - 11/21/11 12:56 AM Re: easiest way to tell if you boned an SB intake install? [Re: Sixgun]
Sixgun Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 1549
Loc: Western Washington
OK, Air gap bolt holes line up "right down broadway"
with NO end seals and NO gaskets.
I would think I'd still be off if it were a really bad mismatch.
Y'all think it's in the ballpark, or do I need to
set the new fel-pros in place (again, no end seals) and double check?
On another, much more serious note, these heads were max-ported, and a few days ago, I noticed a 'void' (or so I thought) on the wall of the intake port divider.Small, like BB sized.Noted to self to address later.
Later came tonight, and I realized that all 4 intake port divider walls had the same issue.The 1/4 inch VC bolt holes were slightly broken through into the port divider.I didn't use super long VC bolts or anything, and I do not remember seeing these'holes' before I installed the intake.Maybe there was a little oil in the VC bolt holes and I hydraulic'ed the bottom out of the holes??I have about an hour of runtime on the motor, so I now need to decide if the heads have to come off.as far as the breakouts, I will just JB them and smooth off,then use 1/4"studs and nuts on the VCs.
The 'chips' would be roughly 1/16" to 1/8" in diameter, and maybe .020 thick, maybe slightly thicker, I dunno.If they are loose in the chambers and manage to wedge against the piston wall,(If they haven't already) it will score the cylinder and maybe damage the piston.As it is now, they already went thru the valves, so whatever happened there, is done.
Thoughts on both?
Thanks, C


Edited by Sixgun (11/21/11 12:57 AM)

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#1111730 - 11/21/11 03:47 AM Re: easiest way to tell if you boned an SB intake install? [Re: Sixgun]
NTOLERANCE Offline
master

Registered: 08/17/03
Posts: 3826
Loc: Madison Wi
Quote:

On another, much more serious note, these heads were max-ported, and a few days ago, I noticed a 'void' (or so I thought) on the wall of the intake port divider.Small, like BB sized.Noted to self to address later.
Later came tonight, and I realized that all 4 intake port divider walls had the same issue.The 1/4 inch VC bolt holes were slightly broken through into the port divider.I didn't use super long VC bolts or anything, and I do not remember seeing these'holes' before I installed the intake.Maybe there was a little oil in the VC bolt holes and I hydraulic'ed the bottom out of the holes??I have about an hour of runtime on the motor, so I now need to decide if the heads have to come off.as far as the breakouts, I will just JB them and smooth off,then use 1/4"studs and nuts on the VCs.
The 'chips' would be roughly 1/16" to 1/8" in diameter, and maybe .020 thick, maybe slightly thicker, I dunno.If they are loose in the chambers and manage to wedge against the piston wall,(If they haven't already) it will score the cylinder and maybe damage the piston.As it is now, they already went thru the valves, so whatever happened there, is done.
Thoughts on both?
Thanks, C




NO JB weld please! IMO the JB weld could break loose and end up in the chambers.

Did you have alot of silicone in the bolt holes for the valve covers? Too much could break the casting if its got no place to go.

Time to pull the heads and have it brazed, or if your really not worried ( I cant tell how bad it is without pics) silicone the bolts and let that seal it up.

You really need to pull it anyway, the metal from the heads got into the chambers, you need to look for damage now.
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#1111731 - 11/21/11 11:18 AM Re: easiest way to tell if you boned an SB intake install? [Re: NTOLERANCE]
Sixgun Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 1549
Loc: Western Washington
Yeah, I have to decide if I'm going to roll the dice.Motor was not free.Labor it took to put in nicely was not fun either.
Ntolerance, no, there was no silicone involved, maybe oil though.
Chances are good they already blew thru, and there were only 4 chips missing (4 holes)
but ultimately I have to decide.
Anybody know if there is more than 1 bore size for SB head gaskets?I have a nice set of MrGs for 318 NIB, as well as a pair of McCords.Not bought for the 360 though.
Rapid Robert your PM box is full!


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#1111732 - 11/21/11 08:22 PM Re: easiest way to tell if you boned an SB intake install? [Re: Sixgun]
Sixgun Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 1549
Loc: Western Washington
Update,
gutted up and opened 'er up.I was already most of the way there, so small loss.
So far ZERO signs of any trauma (Rapid, you were right...so far :-))
So now I get to do the minor repair of the bolt hole/stud deal on the workbench

Instead of leaning over the fender on my bear belly.
I will take my time and run all the pistons down their bores fully and have a look see with a nice bright light.No sense wasting the effort.I was thinking of making a super thin plastic tool like out of Clorox bottle thickness stuff and running it thru all the piston/wall cracks just to be sure.(non scratching)with the piston at the top of the bore.
I guess I'll have more confidence that everything that can be checked, will be...
C
Then, back to the intake issue!

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#1111733 - 11/26/11 08:43 PM Re: easiest way to tell if you boned an SB intake install? [Re: Sixgun]
Sixgun Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 1549
Loc: Western Washington
Update, OK over 1/2 done. cleaned carbon from chambers, sprayed brake cleaner thru breaches in center dividers,blew them clean and dry, light coat of synthetic oil on stud threads for no-stick, mixed up the super sauce and twirled it in with a bamboo skewer, then slapped a small square of thick visquine over the repairs to push them in and smooth them out.
Next day, studs now part of head (oh well)
lightly sanded down patches with 80 grit with paper towel stuffed in port, vacuumed dust then blew out with air.
On to the block.
C

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#1111734 - 11/26/11 10:30 PM Re: easiest way to tell if you boned an SB intake install? [Re: Sixgun]
RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track

Registered: 11/20/03
Posts: 25799
Loc: Lincoln Nebraska
Was wondering when you were going to get away from the beach & the eye candy & get back on the car
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live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

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#1111735 - 03/06/12 01:44 PM Re: easiest way to tell if you boned an SB intake install? [Re: RapidRobert]
AdamR Offline
moparts member

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 7973
Loc: Bethel Ct
If the intake fit perfect without the gaskets on it have a machine mill the gasket thickness off the face of the intake.

Seal the valve cover screw holes that poke into the ports( which is normal on ported heads) with a good thread sealer

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#1111736 - 03/09/12 10:46 PM Re: easiest way to tell if you boned an SB intake install? [Re: AdamR]
Sixgun Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 1549
Loc: Western Washington
Just like your friend said about something else,
THIS is now a non-issue.
Time to forget, move forward, someday forgive.

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