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#1111697 - 11/11/11 08:46 PM easiest way to tell if you boned an SB intake install?
Sixgun Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 1545
Loc: Western Washington
After much whining, scraping/cleaning/painting parts, getting wet,spending $ ("oh it's too nice to use THIS alternator now...")
the .040 360 hydro-roller is IN the Wifes car.
Got her started up without too much drama,barely gets down to say a 1500 idle, then dies suddenly,hard to restart.Tried different carb, same results,different distrib, same results.(worth mentioning ALL parts are known running stuff from old motor just 4 weeks ago)
Dies completely when I drop in gear (TF)

Now the confession...
Seems like the block and/or heads are milled a wee bit, bolts on the old Torker would not line up.(intake at least 1/8" high maybe more).
As the intake was free,and had some thread issues, I did not feel bad about egging out the holes 1/8 plus DOWN, then Hylomar'ed everything in place and bolted her up.
We also painted the engine bay, and as I was very reluctant to scrape all the grounding areas, I ran 12 gauge ground "jumpers" with ring terminals from the braided block ground at the ECU to voltage regulator and starter solenoid, and all that jazz seems OK.
Again, smooths out around 3 grand, but still ragged, shot timing at about 35 total (what should initial be ?)still hard starting, dies off hard to restart.
Obviously I'll end up pulling the intake,and having one cut for this motor,but I'd sure like
to be sure I'm on the right track before making more work for myself.
Please help, please round table discuss?
I am in no position to discount ANY theories just yet...
Thanks, Casey

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#1111698 - 11/11/11 08:58 PM Re: easiest way to tell if you boned an SB intake install? [Re: Sixgun]
scratchnfotraction Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 05/29/03
Posts: 14464
Loc: Florida
get a timeing light and start at 10* BTDC,then use a vac gauge to set curb idle along with the idle airscrews,shoot for a 750rpm in N idle

see what that gets,may want to use an un-lite propain torch arounD intake gasket areas and carb base looking for vac leaks..rpm will go up if it sux it in.

you could use vac gauge to get highest vac reading then check to see where the timeing is and tune from there.

hard starting sound way advanced and will run ruff and stall

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#1111699 - 11/11/11 09:05 PM Re: easiest way to tell if you boned an SB intake install? [Re: Sixgun]
RapidRobert Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 11/20/03
Posts: 25554
Loc: Lincoln Nebraska
pull the intake & mock it up with some composition side gaskets/no front or rear gaskets & check fit (bolt hole/port alignment). If good install it but dont use the supplied front/rear gaskets but instead use a wide carefully placed swath of clear silicone on the front/rear rails instead. Clean the mating surfaces 1st and let the intake set up overnight before starting it up. EDIT if there's any dowel pins on the front/rear rails pull them & toss em


Edited by RapidRobert (11/12/11 08:45 AM)
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#1111700 - 11/11/11 11:00 PM Re: easiest way to tell if you boned an SB intake install? [Re: RapidRobert]
Sixgun Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 1545
Loc: Western Washington
Before I realized the mis alignment I ruined one set of MrG ultraseals as the end rail corks were way thicker than stockers...???
I will try my short curve modded dist.with a new vac advance can tomorrow, and try 10 before with no vac advance hooked up.
But I have a strong feeling it's not just timing.
It just feels wrong, explaining my question about a way to be sure the intake is sealed or not sealed...
Thanks guys!
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#1111701 - 11/12/11 01:31 AM Re: easiest way to tell if you boned an SB intake install? [Re: Sixgun]
451Mopar Offline
master

Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 3807
Loc: Aurora, Colorado
If the intake won't sit down for the bolt holes to line up, check without the end seal gaskets.
On my 360 the heads and block were milled to where I just used some RTV for the end seals.
If the intake is still to high on the heads, you will have to mill the intake (or heads on the intake side.) Enlarging the bolt holes is not a good idea, bolted on that way the cylinder head intake ports and the intake manifold ports are going to be out of alignment.

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#1111702 - 11/12/11 08:50 AM Re: easiest way to tell if you boned an SB intake install? [Re: 451Mopar]
scratchnfotraction Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 05/29/03
Posts: 14464
Loc: Florida
Quote:

If the intake won't sit down for the bolt holes to line up, check without the end seal gaskets.
On my 360 the heads and block were milled to where I just used some RTV for the end seals.
If the intake is still to high on the heads, you will have to mill the intake (or heads on the intake side.) Enlarging the bolt holes is not a good idea, bolted on that way the cylinder head intake ports and the intake manifold ports are going to be out of alignment.




and very well could be sucking oil and air/vac into the ports causeing it to smoke and run poorly.

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#1111703 - 11/12/11 09:13 AM Re: easiest way to tell if you boned an SB intake install? [Re: scratchnfotraction]
Dean_Kuzluzski Offline


Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 8814
Loc: Holly/MI
Maybe I missed it but did you do a compression test? Vacuum gauge test for a pulsating or low reading? Read plugs for coolant?? Coolant in oil? Bubbles in coolant/rad?

I wouldn't just pull the intake and write it off until I knew more.
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#1111704 - 11/12/11 09:44 AM Re: easiest way to tell if you boned an SB intake install? [Re: Dean_Kuzluzski]
MoparforLife Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 25158
Loc: Upper Midwest
The locating dowels on at the rear of the block may well be holding the intake up. Have yet to see an after market intake drill for them. either gt rid of the locating dowels or drill the intake for them.

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#1111705 - 11/12/11 10:07 AM Re: easiest way to tell if you boned an SB intake install? [Re: Dean_Kuzluzski]
Sixgun Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 1545
Loc: Western Washington
No oil in coolant,oil looks new, as it should,
no compression test as of yet, motor is fresh,bought off a trusted member,will do that and at the same time, have a look at plugs soonest.
I am at the beginning of the baseline troubleshooting procedure.I certainly will know more soon.That's why I was trying to establish if the intake port gasket seal is "go/no go" before I go to the next steps.BTW motor has NO end dowels,haven't been caught by that in quite a few years :-)
Thanks guys!

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#1111706 - 11/12/11 08:18 PM Re: easiest way to tell if you boned an SB intake install? [Re: Sixgun]
Sixgun Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 1545
Loc: Western Washington
UPDATE:
Had carb off, and can actually see down intake ports to near valve.Ran a small stainless rod down in the port to "feel" the edge where intake meets head...not much of a "step", seems like a pretty smooth transition.No obvious gasket "line" visible either.
BUT this intake was clean and bone dry when installed a week or so ago, and it had a wet look to it in the runners.Wiped it with a clean paper shop towel, and it is fresh motor oil.Now it could have been a little pull thru from the PCV,
but the motor only has maybe 30 minutes run time since I fired it in THIS car.
My gut tells me the intake ports are not sealed on the underside.May still run a compression test and try a vac gauge.
Thoughts?

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#1111707 - 11/13/11 01:47 AM Re: easiest way to tell if you boned an SB intake install? [Re: Sixgun]
Sixgun Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 1545
Loc: Western Washington

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#1111708 - 11/13/11 09:00 AM Re: easiest way to tell if you boned an SB intake install? [Re: Sixgun]
RapidRobert Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 11/20/03
Posts: 25554
Loc: Lincoln Nebraska
Quote:

My gut tells me the intake ports are not sealed on the underside.May still run a compression test and try a vac gauge.
Thoughts?


(1) the gut is rarely wrong. (2) I'd pass on the further testing & R&R it & get it solved & up & running
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#1111709 - 11/13/11 09:29 AM Re: easiest way to tell if you boned an SB intake install? [Re: RapidRobert]
kilroy Offline
killjoy

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 858
Loc: Iowa State fan
Im along the line its probably something else. SB will leak coolant in the oil if the intake is not aligned. (Dont ask me how I know)
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#1111710 - 11/13/11 08:47 PM Re: easiest way to tell if you boned an SB intake install? [Re: RapidRobert]
NTOLERANCE Offline
master

Registered: 08/17/03
Posts: 3824
Loc: Madison Wi
Easy test for a vacuum leak, with an air cleaner installed that has a single snorkel, lightly begin to take your hand and cover the inlet, slooooooowly....

As you begine to close more and more of the intake snorkel off, the engine may increase RPM.

If it does increase, 100% thats a vacuum leak...

You can use a rag as well to cover it, be careful, dont hurt yourself....
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#1111711 - 11/13/11 10:28 PM Re: easiest way to tell if you boned an SB intake install? [Re: NTOLERANCE]
WheelsUp73 Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 09/11/11
Posts: 347
Loc: California, USA!!!
Wanna check for an internal vacuum leak thats easy. First plug off all the breather ports to the motor( valve covers and pcv to motor, then remove the dip stick and install a vacuum gauge on the tube, start the motor and rev to 2000 , if the vacuum gauge reads vacuum then the manifold is leaking internally.


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#1111712 - 11/14/11 01:17 PM Re: easiest way to tell if you boned an SB intake install? [Re: WheelsUp73]
Sixgun Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 1545
Loc: Western Washington
WE HAVE A WINNER (s)!!!!(well in a few minutes, anyway...)
Ntolerance and Wheelsup73, both very good suggestions.I'm sure someone somewhere told me these things long ago, but just turning 50, it all ran out the other ear :-)
Seriously the carb rag should work well,
the dipstick deal is Einstein!(are we sure the normal crankcase pressure will not exceed the vacuum generated?)This motor is rebuilt and presumably tight, so should work as described...
Out now to try!
THANKS!!!

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#1111713 - 11/14/11 01:22 PM Re: easiest way to tell if you boned an SB intake install? [Re: Sixgun]
RapidRobert Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 11/20/03
Posts: 25554
Loc: Lincoln Nebraska
You sound pumped
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live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

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#1111714 - 11/14/11 01:25 PM Re: easiest way to tell if you boned an SB intake install? [Re: RapidRobert]
Sixgun Offline
pro stock

Registered: 01/24/03
Posts: 1545
Loc: Western Washington
Rob, sending you a PM.

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#1111715 - 11/14/11 01:28 PM Re: easiest way to tell if you boned an SB intake install? [Re: Sixgun]
RapidRobert Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 11/20/03
Posts: 25554
Loc: Lincoln Nebraska
I gotta be in the office in 2 minutes. I'll read it & get back to you ASAP
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live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

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#1111716 - 11/14/11 03:27 PM Re: easiest way to tell if you boned an SB intake install? [Re: Sixgun]
WheelsUp73 Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 09/11/11
Posts: 347
Loc: California, USA!!!
Quote:

WE HAVE A WINNER (s)!!!!(well in a few minutes, anyway...)
Ntolerance and Wheelsup73, both very good suggestions.I'm sure someone somewhere told me these things long ago, but just turning 50, it all ran out the other ear :-)
Seriously the carb rag should work well,
the dipstick deal is Einstein!(are we sure the normal crankcase pressure will not exceed the vacuum generated?)This motor is rebuilt and presumably tight, so should work as described...
Out now to try!
THANKS!!!




As the engine is running it will either build alot of vacuum very quickly or the vac gauge will read in positive pressure.
By the way this test is a Chrysler factory test for the 5.2 and 5.9 motors that may have a lower intake gasket blown but it works on all motors that have the intake sealed to the lifter valley. Good luck!
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