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#152232 - 11/25/08 05:59 PM Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? [Re: Promopar]
6bblgt Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 12613
Loc: Las Vegas, NV
The list of "E" codes on that site are almost humorous.

I believe E65 is used for all 383 4bbl in '71 only, 383HP was 300hp NET.
_________________________
- Dan

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#152233 - 11/25/08 07:24 PM Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? [Re: 6bblgt]
Promopar Offline
member

Registered: 05/01/08
Posts: 85
Loc: Missouri
Yeah, you are correct.
This website shows that all 383 RR engines in 69' would have been E63, either variety.

http://www.genocide2600.com/~traviso/mml/bodydecode.html#e

The "Charger Road Runner & Super Bee Restoration Guide" by Paul Herd (1994) shows E62 as the regular 383 4bl for 1969, but does not list the E63 in the appendix.

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#152234 - 11/25/08 10:02 PM Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? [Re: Promopar]
topside Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 10454
Loc: So Near, Yet So Far
That Paul Herd book has so many errors & misleading photos in it that it's totally unreliable as a source of accurate and/or correct information.

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#152235 - 11/26/08 07:27 PM Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? [Re: topside]
Promopar Offline
member

Registered: 05/01/08
Posts: 85
Loc: Missouri
I'm not saying that this book is the mopar holy gail, but it is one of the most comprehensive of the very few B-body restoration books available, and has had an influence on most factory restorations completed since its publishing.

The book also says on page 23,

"A few 383/335hp V-8's were painted turquoise when equipped with air conditioning."

Again on page 29,

"Note that some 1969 and 1970 383s in
air-conditioned Super Bees and Road Runners were painted Turquoise."

On page 40 (picture caption)

"Cars sold in California in 1969 used a dual snorkel air cleaner with the high performance 383ci and 440ci powerplants."

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#152236 - 11/26/08 08:57 PM Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? [Re: Promopar]
6bblgt Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 12613
Loc: Las Vegas, NV


Quote:

I'm not saying that this book is the mopar holy gail, but it is one of the most comprehensive of the very few B-body restoration books available, and has had an influence on most factory restorations completed since its publishing.

The book also says on page 23,

"A few 383/335hp V-8's were painted turquoise when equipped with air conditioning."

Again on page 29,

"Note that some 1969 and 1970 383s in
air-conditioned Super Bees and Road Runners were painted Turquoise."

On page 40 (picture caption)

"Cars sold in California in 1969 used a dual snorkel air cleaner with the high performance 383ci and 440ci powerplants."




YOU ARE KIDDING, RIGHT??

Quote:

I'm not saying that this book is the mopar holy gail, but it is one of the most comprehensive of the very few B-body restoration books available, and has had an influence on most factory restorations completed since its publishing.




None that I've had any part in. Was warned against it many moons ago & if your examples are proof of how good it is, then the warning was well deserved.

Quote:

The book also says on page 23,

"A few 383/335hp V-8's were painted turquoise when equipped with air conditioning."




If you have been following this thread, you can see that the 383HP/335hp engine with A/C is mythical. Please provide proof that this combo existed in '68 and/or '69.

Quote:

Again on page 29,

"Note that some 1969 and 1970 383s in
air-conditioned Super Bees and Road Runners were painted Turquoise."




1969 - all SB and RR with A/C were turquois & 1970 - all SB and RR with A/C were orange.
(exceptions would be "factory mistakes" & not the norm, proof would be the responsibility of the owner/restorer)

Quote:

On page 40 (picture caption)

"Cars sold in California in 1969 used a dual snorkel air cleaner with the high performance 383ci and 440ci powerplants."




Poor choice of wording or taken out of context.
All '70 model year b-bodies w/single 4bbl carb. w/o a fresh air hood (N96) sold in California during Sept. - Dec '69 had a dual snorkel air cleaner.
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- Dan

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#152237 - 11/26/08 10:03 PM Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? [Re: 6bblgt]
Promopar Offline
member

Registered: 05/01/08
Posts: 85
Loc: Missouri
Look, I mean no disrespect, and I expect none in return.

If I show you a picture of a car that is supposedly "unrestored" you can easily claim that the color was changed like this one.
http://www.carsolina.com/ss3.htm

What indisputable evidence would be required to have proof of something like this? I do not claim to know. I am just putting forth literature on the issue, which is what this forum is for, correct?

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#152238 - 11/26/08 11:32 PM Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? [Re: Promopar]
A12 Offline
A12 Staff Photographer

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 16974
Loc: N.E. OHIO, USA
Quote:

Look, I mean no disrespect, and I expect none in return.

If I show you a picture of a car that is supposedly "unrestored" you can easily claim that the color was changed like this one.
http://www.carsolina.com/ss3.htm

What indisputable evidence would be required to have proof of something like this? I do not claim to know. I am just putting forth literature on the issue, which is what this forum is for, correct?





The RR in the link you posted is not an unrestored car; many of the nuts and bolts and wire harness clamps have body color paint on them , the throttle cable clamp almost looks turquois or silver and not engine orange? The washer bottle is not original, no engine paint on the battery ground cable............

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#152239 - 11/27/08 12:53 AM Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? [Re: Promopar]
69CoronetRT Offline
master

Registered: 03/28/04
Posts: 8710
Loc: Harlan, Iowa
Quote:



What indisputable evidence would be required to have proof of something like this?




A broadast sheet or a Lynch road fender tags that shows the HP assembly and the A/C.
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Seeking: 1969 St. Louis plant VINs, SPD, and VONs. Over 2,000 thanks to you!

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#152240 - 11/27/08 08:57 AM Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? [Re: 69CoronetRT]
AZ_A12_BEE Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 17969
Loc: Dreaming of the 808
Anybody notice that the correct clutch on a 69 383 with A/C is smaller than one on a 440 car?


Attachments
4842036-ss0303.jpg (38 downloads)

_________________________
69.5 A12 Bee, first purchased in 1976, car 169 on registry 69 Coronet R/T 440/4 spd 69 Coronet 500 Conv H code 383 4bbl/auto 37 Plymouth PU Find your spot on earth and ride it.

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#152241 - 11/27/08 09:09 AM Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? [Re: Promopar]
DPelletier Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 04/20/05
Posts: 14948
Loc: Kelowna, B.C. Canada
Quote:

Look, I mean no disrespect, and I expect none in return.

If I show you a picture of a car that is supposedly "unrestored" you can easily claim that the color was changed like this one.
http://www.carsolina.com/ss3.htm

What indisputable evidence would be required to have proof of something like this? I do not claim to know. I am just putting forth literature on the issue, which is what this forum is for, correct?





Like Doug said; a Lynch road fender tag or a broadcast sheet showing the A/C option and the 335hp motor. That's the ONLY way to provide proof.

No disrespect intended, but here's a friendly pce of wisdom to a Moparts newbie that it took me 5000 posts to learn: Doug, Dan and Mike know what they are talking about.....trust me.



Dave
_________________________
1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 1974 'Cuda 2008 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Ram 3500 Diesel 2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel 2003 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Durango Limited [url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]

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#152242 - 11/27/08 09:36 AM Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? [Re: DPelletier]
cdp Online   content
master

Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 2924
Loc: MO
This is my 69 SE 383/330 Charger with A/C. No HP stamping. This is a #'s car and has been in the same family for 20 years prior to me buying it. The air cleaner is also original with a red "383-4 barrel" pie tin.


Attachments
4842128-more_picsoldpc192.jpg (39 downloads)


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#152243 - 11/27/08 10:29 AM Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? [Re: Promopar]
6bblgt Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 12613
Loc: Las Vegas, NV
Quote:

Look, I mean no disrespect, and I expect none in return.




No disrespect intended, I tried to inject enough Graemlins to lighten the spirit of my reply to your post. Nothing personal.

It was/is more a "disrespect" of the "RESTORATION GUIDE".
I am envious of Mr. Herds abilities/time/connections to complete a book project & get it published, not impressed by the accuracy of the book.
& alot has changed as far as perceived "correctness" since 1994.


Edited by 6bblgt (11/27/08 10:34 AM)
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#152244 - 11/27/08 07:20 PM Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? [Re: Promopar]
69CoronetRT Offline
master

Registered: 03/28/04
Posts: 8710
Loc: Harlan, Iowa
Quote:

Look, I mean no disrespect, and I expect none in return.

If I show you a picture of a car that is supposedly "unrestored" you can easily claim that the color was changed like this one.
http://www.carsolina.com/ss3.htm

What indisputable evidence would be required to have proof of something like this? I do not claim to know. I am just putting forth literature on the issue, which is what this forum is for, correct?





James, many people new to the hobby rely on Herd's restoration book. After time, you come to realize how many mistakes are in the book. It would be more of a service to the hobby if the publishers stopped printing the book and prevent more confusion.

One advantage message boards have over books is the collective information from lots of people and their ability to post supporting documentation. Books don't have the ability to offer the volumes of documentation that a message board can.

The engine color, tranny and A/C question comes up often. Here are two threads that were productive:

383-tranny thread #1

Thread #2


Edited by 69CoronetRT (11/27/08 07:22 PM)
_________________________
Seeking: 1969 St. Louis plant VINs, SPD, and VONs. Over 2,000 thanks to you!

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#152245 - 11/27/08 08:56 PM Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? [Re: 69CoronetRT]
Promopar Offline
member

Registered: 05/01/08
Posts: 85
Loc: Missouri
Thanks,

on that topic, what are some of the best sources of information on proper mopar b-body restorations?

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#152246 - 11/27/08 09:21 PM Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? [Re: Promopar]
ebodyseast Offline
mopar

Registered: 04/01/08
Posts: 500
Loc: NoVa
You've already found some of the best sources...right here.

Just keep presenting any future B body resto questions here to the forum.

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#152247 - 11/28/08 09:49 AM Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? [Re: ebodyseast]
topside Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 10454
Loc: So Near, Yet So Far
This is why Survivor Cars are so important.

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#152248 - 11/28/08 10:38 AM Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? [Re: topside]
cdp Online   content
master

Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 2924
Loc: MO
What happen to all the people that worked at the engine assembly plants? Has anyone ever talked to someone who worked the engine line?

It would be nice to know the assembly process of when the A/C units met up with the engine and how they new that turquise motors got the A/C and orange motors didn't., etc,.

We hear from assembly line workers, but I've never seen any conversation of the engine facility workers. Where are you all hiding?

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#152249 - 11/28/08 11:25 AM Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? [Re: cdp]
DPelletier Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 04/20/05
Posts: 14948
Loc: Kelowna, B.C. Canada
Quote:

What happen to all the people that worked at the engine assembly plants? Has anyone ever talked to someone who worked the engine line?

It would be nice to know the assembly process of when the A/C units met up with the engine and how they new that turquise motors got the A/C and orange motors didn't., etc,.

We hear from assembly line workers, but I've never seen any conversation of the engine facility workers. Where are you all hiding?




I thought that was what the broadcast sheets were used for. Where are they? A good many are probably dead by now.


Dave
_________________________
1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack 1974 'Cuda 2008 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Ram 3500 Diesel 2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel 2003 Ram 3500 Diesel 2006 Durango Limited [url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]

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#152250 - 11/28/08 12:19 PM Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? [Re: DPelletier]
Chi_Town_Runner Offline
super stock

Registered: 07/03/04
Posts: 1076
Loc: Retired in New Mexico
Quote:

Where are they? A good many are probably dead by now.





Ouch!!!!
Thanks Dave,
You just made me re-realize the facts of life. When you get old....your gonna die.

I didn't work in the auto industry, but I was old enough to in '68.

Glad to still be here.

Frank
_________________________
Remember - 2 wrongs don't make a right - but 3 rights make a left!


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#152251 - 11/28/08 01:11 PM Re: '69 roadrunner w/AC - engine color? [Re: Chi_Town_Runner]
cdp Online   content
master

Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 2924
Loc: MO
I'm sure there were plenty of 20 somethings working the lines in 69-70, etc. That would make them late 50-early 60's. They ain't all dead.

I've talked to a few line workers that are in the hobby. Just never any engine people.

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