Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 >
Topic Options
#82240 - 06/30/08 05:28 PM Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam
VITC_GTX Offline
master

Registered: 03/22/03
Posts: 4227
Loc: Tri-Cities, Washington
My GTX has the 284/484 Mopar cam. During recent discussions on the board I was told by many that they really disliked this cam (their opinion was the stock 440 cam was just as good under certain circumstances).

Anyway, I currently have a low stall converter (~2100 rpms) and a 3.55 suregrip. If I swap in a Dynamic or PTC 3000 rpm converter would that wake the cam up or should I change the converter and cam together? If so, what cam?

This is a 100% street car.
_________________________
Van "Never underestimate the stupidity of people in large groups" 1970 Vit-C GTX 1971 Demon - 12.76 @ 104.50 1969 Coronet 500 1971 Sebring Plus 1969 Barracuda Notchback - 12.41 @ 109.05 1970 Sport Satellite

Top
#82241 - 06/30/08 05:49 PM Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: VITC_GTX]
wings471 Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 03/17/05
Posts: 390
Loc: pacific northwest
I've read all of those ..opinions.. myself. I have that cam in a alum. head 383 with quality parts thru-out. The motor maybe makes 450-475 hp in a '68 Coronet Boat. I had a low stall converter which made the car unfun to drive. I called Andre @ Edge racing converters and gave him the specifics. He built a 3000 stall for me. It's great from a dead stop and it is civilized in traffic. For a boat it is surprising how strong that combo is and it just keeps pulling. Before with the 2000 stall it was ugly from a dead stop. I like that cam with the correct converter I also run 3.55's with 29" tires.


Edited by wings440 (06/30/08 05:51 PM)
_________________________
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm136/wings440/P8050125-1.jpg "Uhmmmm......I got nuthin'."

Top
#82242 - 06/30/08 06:05 PM Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: wings471]
VITC_GTX Offline
master

Registered: 03/22/03
Posts: 4227
Loc: Tri-Cities, Washington
Thanks, that reassuring.

I'm only running 28" tires so that should help me a little too.

Any other opinions?
_________________________
Van "Never underestimate the stupidity of people in large groups" 1970 Vit-C GTX 1971 Demon - 12.76 @ 104.50 1969 Coronet 500 1971 Sebring Plus 1969 Barracuda Notchback - 12.41 @ 109.05 1970 Sport Satellite

Top
#82243 - 06/30/08 06:17 PM Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: VITC_GTX]
mike s Offline
mopar addict

Registered: 01/07/07
Posts: 1616
Loc: Mi,U.S.A.
If you have a real 9.5-1 comp in your engine they work fine.( the latest 114 c/l version works better) The newer Comp XE cams or Lunati VooDoo series are a better choice for all around street use.The newer fast ramp cams really beat them up in the low and mid range where most street geared , mild torq converter cars run. A 2600-2800 rpm converter is more than enough with the 3:55.For most cars the 280 / 470 MP cam is a better choice if you want to stay with the MP cams.
_________________________
Leave the gun.......take the Cannoli's....Mike

Top
#82244 - 06/30/08 07:08 PM Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: mike s]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Running that cam in a 30 over 440 six pack motor 475-500 hp with a 2200 - 2400 stall converter and 410 gears and 29" tires and it is in a 3800 lb car and it is a hand full. Couldn't be more happpier with the set up.The only cam I ever ran in all my 440 motors

Thanks Moparts

Top
#82245 - 06/30/08 07:23 PM Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: VITC_GTX]
CrAzYMoPaRGuY Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 10/06/04
Posts: 15851
Loc: Canada
Not sure who disliked them cam, but I sure like it. I've used it over a dozen times, I had the 484/284 P4120235 in my Demon, it not only performed VERY well it also passed our BC AirCare emissions testing with NO detuning whatsoever, WITH the engine exactly as you see it....



I've ran the cam in different compression ratio engines, 383 to 440s, so long as the engine is fairly good shape and decent compression with heads that flow decently I have always LIKED the MP 484 cam.

There's ALWAYS a group that doesn't like a particular part, or a particular brand, etc etc...
_________________________

Top
#82246 - 06/30/08 09:08 PM Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I have the same cam in my 383 powered '71 RR. Motor is about 10.25/1 compression, mild head work, 4:10 gears and 28 inch tall rear tires, it's a nice combo. BTW torque converter stalls around 2800-3k.

Top
#82247 - 06/30/08 10:09 PM Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: mike s]
VITC_GTX Offline
master

Registered: 03/22/03
Posts: 4227
Loc: Tri-Cities, Washington
Sounds like I have a decent combo (compression/ported heads/3.55's/28's") I just need a converter to wake everything up.

Time to call Kenny at PTC I guess. Hopefully I see a significant difference.
_________________________
Van "Never underestimate the stupidity of people in large groups" 1970 Vit-C GTX 1971 Demon - 12.76 @ 104.50 1969 Coronet 500 1971 Sebring Plus 1969 Barracuda Notchback - 12.41 @ 109.05 1970 Sport Satellite

Top
#82248 - 07/01/08 05:08 AM Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: VITC_GTX]
Mr.Yuck Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 23380
Loc: Brookeville, Md
They are poo poo dog cams. Unless you have a3k stall, 3.91's 10:1 (or better) good exhaust (headers)RPM intake (or like), good carb they are dog cams. They don't pull until 3k or better, make no power down low. If you have all the above they will work pretty good however they are not a good street cam. They have terible idle quality and pull zero vacuum.

Top
#82249 - 07/01/08 08:05 AM Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: Mr.Yuck]
451Mopar Offline
master

Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 3810
Loc: Aurora, Colorado
I mentioned in a simular post, that the 284/484, and 292/509 purple shaft cams were designed for beacket racing. These were the cams of choice in the Mopar Performance catalogs if you were building a bracket race car (hi-stall converter, open headers, and 4.10+ gears.) The 108 lobe seperation angle tends to create a strong, but narrow torque curve in the mid to upper RPM range.
Because of the increased overlap, the idle is choppy, vacuum is low, and low end torque is fairly weak below 2,500 RPM.

The newer "street performance" cams use a slightly wider lobe seperation angle and split intake/exhaust duration to provide a wider torque curve that will still perform good in the upper RPM range, but they may not have as much "peak" torque as the Mopar purple shaft cam.

Top
#82250 - 07/01/08 09:17 AM Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: 451Mopar]
Mr.Yuck Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 23380
Loc: Brookeville, Md
Quote:

I mentioned in a simular post, that the 284/484, and 292/509 purple shaft cams were designed for beacket racing. These were the cams of choice in the Mopar Performance catalogs if you were building a bracket race car (hi-stall converter, open headers, and 4.10+ gears.) The 108 lobe seperation angle tends to create a strong, but narrow torque curve in the mid to upper RPM range.
Because of the increased overlap, the idle is choppy, vacuum is low, and low end torque is fairly weak below 2,500 RPM.

The newer "street performance" cams use a slightly wider lobe seperation angle and split intake/exhaust duration to provide a wider torque curve that will still perform good in the upper RPM range, but they may not have as much "peak" torque as the Mopar purple shaft cam.



that's what I should have said..lol

Top
#82251 - 07/01/08 10:23 AM Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: Mr.Yuck]
CrAzYMoPaRGuY Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 10/06/04
Posts: 15851
Loc: Canada
Quote:

They are poo poo dog cams. Unless you have a3k stall, 3.91's 10:1 (or better) good exhaust (headers)RPM intake (or like), good carb they are dog cams. They don't pull until 3k or better, make no power down low. If you have all the above they will work pretty good however they are not a good street cam. They have terible idle quality and pull zero vacuum.




Great assessment.

Just not ACCURATE.

Have you ever actually ran a 484/284 in a car? Give us the specs on the engine.

I've ran a ton of them, my Demon had the P4120235...

LESS than 10.1 to 1 compression
Pulled VERY good down low. (with a tunnel ram and 2x4bbl too)
Made tons of low end power.
Idled solid as a rock in neutral and in gear.
EXTREMELY drivable, it was a great package.
Pull "zero" vacuum? Get real, my Demon had POWER BRAKES, it never had a hard pedal in the 10 years I regularly drove it on the street.

The car was fairly well known as I had it out all the time, in the middle of winter in 6" of snow even. I drove it year round for close to a decade. My wife went shopping in it quite a bit.

Could it be you guys who don't like the MoPar Performance stuff are setting up your cars WRONG, then blaming the parts instead of the tuner..?


Take a look- 484/284, tunnel ram, two four barrels and it passed AirCare emissions testing without detuning at all every single year, from 1991 until 2000.

I raced alot of cars in that time in the lower mainland of B.C., ask around how poorly my combo worked, most people asked if the car was a roller cam, and we would all laugh.

_________________________

Top
#82252 - 07/01/08 10:30 AM Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: 451Mopar]
CrAzYMoPaRGuY Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 10/06/04
Posts: 15851
Loc: Canada
Here's my wife's old daily driver for years, it was a 484/284 cammed 440 too. Power brakes with a K car booster, and it had a tunnel ram and 2x4bbls too. Rain, snow, it was her transportation to work, and at play. Ask the poor fool on Pemberton in North Vancouver with the Grand National if it was a good street performer...

And my WIFE was driving at the time!


_________________________

Top
#82253 - 07/01/08 10:34 AM Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: Mr.Yuck]
CrAzYMoPaRGuY Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 10/06/04
Posts: 15851
Loc: Canada
My buddy's 9 to 1 440 with a 484/284 was a mild street driver too- he went 12.80 on the motor and 11.63 on a small bottle at Ashcroft.

WITH 2.76 GEARS!!!!! And 29" tall slicks!
He had power brakes too.

I just wonder what the tuning was like in your cars, toss some specific parts etc at us and let's see if we can figure out where you guys went wrong or not...


_________________________

Top
#82254 - 07/01/08 10:44 AM Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: CrAzYMoPaRGuY]
Mr.Yuck Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 23380
Loc: Brookeville, Md
Quote:

Quote:

They are poo poo dog cams. Unless you have a3k stall, 3.91's 10:1 (or better) good exhaust (headers)RPM intake (or like), good carb they are dog cams. They don't pull until 3k or better, make no power down low. If you have all the above they will work pretty good however they are not a good street cam. They have terible idle quality and pull zero vacuum.




Great assessment.

Just not ACCURATE.

Have you ever actually ran a 484/284 in a car? Give us the specs on the engine.

I've ran a ton of them, my Demon had the P4120235...

LESS than 10.1 to 1 compression
Pulled VERY good down low. (with a tunnel ram and 2x4bbl too)
Made tons of low end power.
Idled solid as a rock in neutral and in gear.
EXTREMELY drivable, it was a great package.
Pull "zero" vacuum? Get real, my Demon had POWER BRAKES, it never had a hard pedal in the 10 years I regularly drove it on the street.

The car was fairly well known as I had it out all the time, in the middle of winter in 6" of snow even. I drove it year round for close to a decade. My wife went shopping in it quite a bit.

Could it be you guys who don't like the MoPar Performance stuff are setting up your cars WRONG, then blaming the parts instead of the tuner..?


Take a look- 484/284, tunnel ram, two four barrels and it passed AirCare emissions testing without detuning at all every single year, from 1991 until 2000.

I raced alot of cars in that time in the lower mainland of B.C., ask around how poorly my combo worked, most people asked if the car was a roller cam, and we would all laugh.






yes i have. Will the car run? sure it's a 440. last one was a67 coronet 9:1 440 906 heads with a little work, 2200 convert, headers, CH4B intake 750 Eddy car and 3.55's it was a DOOOOOOG. Put in a Summit 488 cam and it ran great. The old style 484's and 509's like to run form 3k up. I also had a 69 Charher w/ a stock 73 440 that somebody put a 509 in...doooog.
Glad yours worked. what gear? what stall?

Top
#82255 - 07/01/08 10:57 AM Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: Mr.Yuck]
kenworth_goose Offline
pro stock

Registered: 05/13/06
Posts: 1434
Loc: ky.
All I can say is if you had a doooog with a 484 or a 509 you had other issues. I've used many in both small blocks and big blocks with bone stock bottm ends and they screamed. The last was a 68 dart with a 508 stock bottom end, stock heads with a good intake carb ign etc. went 12.40's all day long in 90 degree heat and a stock convertor with 3.91's, with street tires and full exhaust. Maybe you need a new tuner?

Top
#82256 - 07/01/08 10:58 AM Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: Mr.Yuck]
Paul_Fancsali Offline
master

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2597
Idon't think the problem is the cam in itself as I have owned and still own both cams. The Mopar cams from the days gone by are just that dinosaurs.The 284 -292 all pull like crazy on upper end and are good race cams they are not good on the street. I know as I drove one for close to 20 years. Can they be made to work YES, but right now I'm using a Racer Brown custom grind that to say the least is fantastic. has all the bottom end and high end I want and pulls right to 6500, it can also break the tire loose from just flooring it in 1st and sec gear.and actually gets a legit 14mpg. The 292 and 284 are lucky to get 8-10mpg on a good day. As I said use them if you got them but face facts the new generation of cams are far better. And with fuel at $4.30 a gallon I still want to drive my car just my 10 cents

Top
#82257 - 07/01/08 11:05 AM Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: Mr.Yuck]
CrAzYMoPaRGuY Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 10/06/04
Posts: 15851
Loc: Canada
I've ran 484 and 509 cams in all sorts of cars personally, and most of my buddies have too. I've had over a dozen cars I put the cams in myself...

Did you degree your cams or just install them stright up on the timing gears? (What timing gears? )

My buddy had the worst gearing IMO, he had 2.76 gears with 29" tall tires, it was a 63 Dodge that was known locally as "The Lobster". It ran 11.63 at 118mph at Ashcroft on a small powershot kit, he just barely got out of second gear. I have it on tape somewhere, the whole stands starts to laugh when the car's numbers came up on the board, they knew what was in the car.

My wife's Cordoba was a 484 with a STOCK torque converter, she drove it every day. She could fry the tires at will.
Most of my cars were steeper geared but taller tired, however I did run highway gears on a few of them, no problems. I ported the heads myself, degreed the cams myself, built the engines myself, and never had any issues with any of the cams. I've never seen any of my local Mopar buddies ever "complain" about the cams the way they are complained about in this thread, I'll have to show them this. We all had good bottom end power and all had good vacuum, the vast majority of the cars had power brakes too. Small pot reservoir power brakes to boot.

A 1973 Charger was an 8.2 to 1 engine on PAPER, did you ever figure out the true compression ratio on what you were running? I'm willing to bet it wasn't what you thought! A 509 cam and a sub 8 to 1 compression engine that's not in great shape aren't exactly a "recipe for success" if ya know what I mean?
Combine that combo with highway gears and a heavy car and for SURE the car SHOULD be a "dog", IMO anyways..?
_________________________

Top
#82258 - 07/01/08 11:10 AM Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: kenworth_goose]
Mr.Yuck Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 23380
Loc: Brookeville, Md
Quote:

All I can say is if you had a doooog with a 484 or a 509 you had other issues. I've used many in both small blocks and big blocks with bone stock bottm ends and they screamed. The last was a 68 dart with a 508 stock bottom end, stock heads with a good intake carb ign etc. went 12.40's all day long in 90 degree heat and a stock convertor with 3.91's, with street tires and full exhaust. Maybe you need a new tuner?



yeah maybe small block what? comparing a small block to a big block is silly. Typically 340's don't starting running well until 2500-3000 rpm. So one of those cams would work better in a SB. You had 3.91's so you'll get to the rpms quicker. if you had 3.23's in the car it would have been a dog, also if you had a more modern split duration cam in the car it'd run better too. Would my 2 cars do cool burn-outs?? yeah but those cams weren't designed for mild street applications. Funny cam swap only dropped me over a 1/2 second and had much better throttle response and created a longer powerband.
I had a well worked 383 in a 68 dart that I used a 509 in. That car ran great 11.80's but it was far from a mild street engine and the car had 4.30's and a bunch of other goodies.

Top
#82259 - 07/01/08 11:24 AM Re: Pros and Cons for 284/484 cam [Re: Mr.Yuck]
kenworth_goose Offline
pro stock

Registered: 05/13/06
Posts: 1434
Loc: ky.
My 68 dart was a 360 and went 12.40's all day long. If you had a 383 dart and it runs 12.80's you need to do some tuning. It should run much better than that. I had 3.91's and a stock convertor. Engine had a stock bottom end as well.

Top
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 >